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[Aria Jenneth]

Don't worry. I'm playing the mediary here.

Lovely. Thank you, Arvo; now's probably a good time for one of those. You seem to have a talent for posting something soothing about the time I'm about to lose it; one quality I share with Aria is a tendency to hold people's debating tactics against them. 

You raise a lot of solid points. I should probably explain that the "tags" of one sort and another are partly there as a "trust" issue of another sort. I've had my RP habits looked on as a security risk before, particularly the point that it's the character's trustworthiness, not mine, that dictates her actions vis-a-vis such things as corp theft or sabotage.

What worries me is that people who get a little deeper into the "OOC friends" side of corp life than I do often don't get this attitude at all. I was once asked to surrender my controlling interest in a corporation for this reason. It's also gotten me called "sociopathic."

... And taking part in this game pretty much requires that a player be trustworthy in exactly the same way as their character. Hence the "tags."

The [IMPLANTED] tag and URL are partly there so that we don't all end up blacklisted by less-understanding "light" roleplay corporations. The idea was to make sure that people don't start checking that topic for a signature to see whether that promising new recruit might actually switch sides without notice. It's a politeness and a courtesy, an admitted nod to the "metagame" and the fear a lot of people have about anything that smacks of untrustworthiness.

It was meant, in short, as a way that uninvolved superiors and coworkers could monitor a player's status to see whether anything had changed. A little nod to metagame paranoia-- a little concession to prevent a purge.

But ... if we wanted to change the scenario a bit ... and make it even more immersive ...

I'd want entire corporations for that, ideally. Not just individuals. I discounted the idea because I didn't think people would go for it, but if you think you can convince them....

I can't really concentrate on this right now, since I'm trying to study for the freaking bar exam and am up way later than I should be, typing this. You seem to have an interest in, and a gift for, playing diplomat, Arvo; if you can put together a proposal that balances or dodges the various concerns, and which has some broad backing, that would be great.

If you're willing to take it on, of course. It sounds like discussions are already well underway.

[Graanvlokkie]

As a Sansha RP'er I first shared the views expressed by fellow RP'ers but I have found myself intrigued at the possible in character applications.

A few questions though.

When a signatory player's ship is destroyed and the pod is tackled, opposing signatories may choose to try and capture the enemy pilot instead of destroying the pod. This is done by approaching the pod with a salvager-equipped ship before the pod can self-destruct. A bump will be adequate to simulate pod capture.

 

First, my experience is that pods are almost impossible to tackle except in 0.0 sec bubbles or using interdictors. This makes capturing your target in high or low sec extremely difficult, if not impossible, barring any errors from the unsuspecting pilot.

Second, is “the hunter” and “the hunted” supposed to sign up for the mechanics? I’m asking because if I sign up as a hunter I will be immediately added to watch lists and even if not there will be some uneasy feelings if I show up in local with a group of corp mates. Personally I think it would work better if only “the hunted” sign up with the hunters free to use subterfuge and deceit. Of course you will not trust Graanvlokkie who has declared support of the Nation publically, but can I use “Agent X” to lure a victim into a trap, kill and tackle the POD for me, only for me to enter the system and warp in for the capture?

Third, I understand the underlying reasons for detecting the implants, but it seems too easy. If I were to convince people to participate it would be for intelligence. “Yes, it will take us 2 weeks to find out where Pilot X lives, track his times when he is in space, infiltrate his alliances space/travel to his home system and wait for him to be vulnerable, but once accomplished we can implant him and have him go about his daily tasks only sending vital information about project Y and/or troop movements to us occasionally. It will be long and hard, require planning, but in the end we will know the enemies movements”.

After all that effort it seems like opening the character BIO to check for implants is just a bit too easy, especially because I wouldn’t alter anything about a character’s behaviour other than turn him into a nice source of information.

[Aria Jenneth]

As a Sansha RP'er I first shared the views expressed by fellow RP'ers but I have found myself intrigued at the possible in character applications.

Lovely!

A few questions though.

I won't be able to do this sort of thing much for the next few weeks, but I've got a few minutes, so I'll try my best to answer.

First, my experience is that pods are almost impossible to tackle except in 0.0 sec bubbles or using interdictors. This makes capturing your target in high or low sec extremely difficult, if not impossible, barring any errors from the unsuspecting pilot.

If your target knows her stuff, it's hard, yeah. You get improved odds with a sensor-boosted interceptor and good reflexes (Insta-lock versus Insta-warp! FIGHT!), but this is not meant to be an "easy" catch.

Second, is “the hunter” and “the hunted” supposed to sign up for the mechanics? I’m asking because if I sign up as a hunter I will be immediately added to watch lists and even if not there will be some uneasy feelings if I show up in local with a group of corp mates. Personally I think it would work better if only “the hunted” sign up with the hunters free to use subterfuge and deceit. Of course you will not trust Graanvlokkie who has declared support of the Nation publically, but can I use “Agent X” to lure a victim into a trap, kill and tackle the POD for me, only for me to enter the system and warp in for the capture?

Speaking from experience as an old, if often not very active, pirate, showing up all shiny in Local is a problem, but by no means an insurmountable one. "While distracted" is a good time to turn up, and planetary interaction's providing some really good "distracted" moments, from what I hear.

And then there are missions ... exploration sites ... there are lots of things people are reluctant to leave, even if there's someone dangerous in-system.

And then, also, even those of us who signed up out of an odd sort of masochism aren't necessarily "down" with being caught if we can't return the favor at another time. Fair's fair, and all that.

So, the hunter is, currently, supposed to sign up, yes. Additionally, the final blow must be from a signatory. The reason for this is to prevent, say, Julianus Soter (non-signatory) from tackling your pod and calling for Aria, who's maybe a system away, to come and get it.

'Course, we could change that and just say that if you can't hit the self-destruct in time, that's your own problem. But then there's also the problem of having HUGE hunting gangs with maybe just one or two signatories.

Then again, maybe you guys don't see that as a problem. If not, hey, let's do it.

Third, I understand the underlying reasons for detecting the implants, but it seems too easy. If I were to convince people to participate it would be for intelligence. “Yes, it will take us 2 weeks to find out where Pilot X lives, track his times when he is in space, infiltrate his alliances space/travel to his home system and wait for him to be vulnerable, but once accomplished we can implant him and have him go about his daily tasks only sending vital information about project Y and/or troop movements to us occasionally. It will be long and hard, require planning, but in the end we will know the enemies movements”.

Yeeeeah, that's exactly why my inclination has been to flag the character: so people don't start assuming we're all spais. Don't get me wrong: I like the idea a lot. I'm just not sure the RP community (most of which is of the "RP lite" school) won't respond by throwing us all out on our collective ear.

Mind you, we could set things up to allow for that: have a couple of mirror-image corporations specifically dedicated to solid RP combined with this sort of cloak-and-dagger play. But that, too, seems kinda artificial.

The best of all possible is probably just as you suggest-- IF we (well, you; I don't have any) can keep our corpmates from from freaking out at the idea that you could switch sides without notice.

After all that effort it seems like opening the character BIO to check for implants is just a bit too easy, especially because I wouldn’t alter anything about a character’s behaviour other than turn him into a nice source of information.

Agreed. But, yeah, the potential to harm non-participants is the heart of the reason for doing it: so they don't get all preemptive on us.

[Lillith Blackheart]

The thing about the tag, that I stressed before, is it makes it incredibly one-sided. What you effectively end up with is a game like Shadows Over Camelot (a boardgame), where the Traitor is required to tell everyone beforehand that he is the traitor. If dynamic RP is the goal, why remove the RP from it by inserting the metagame?

[Aria Jenneth]

The thing about the tag, that I stressed before, is it makes it incredibly one-sided. What you effectively end up with is a game like Shadows Over Camelot (a boardgame), where the Traitor is required to tell everyone beforehand that he is the traitor. If dynamic RP is the goal, why remove the RP from it by inserting the metagame?

Yeah, you did mention that before. You had a point then, and have a point now, but it also changes, fundamentally, the function of the mechanic.

What I planned on having was a situation where you could have Really Bad Things if your CEO gets implanted, but ultimately all implant victims ended up switching sides outright, rather than playing the espionage game.

But, it seems like a lot of people are very interested in the espionage thing. And one important point to take into account is that a capture victim is only going to be practically usable for espionage if they can be caught in isolation and taken down silently. Otherwise, they get to scream bloody murder in every channel they have access to, right up until the pod is captured (and thus disabled).

If they can be caught quietly, therefore, you've got your spy. Otherwise, they can blow their own cover unless and until taken. That provides an element of "intel" balance I hadn't really considered before (presuming, as always, good faith on all sides).

It also means that the capsuleer is most in danger of being downed silently when in precisely the logical situation: one-shotted from ambush in a fragile ship, allowing little opportunity for either warp-out or alert. Slam, bam, you're ours.

That ... could work. Hm. And the difficulty of pulling it off would likely keep participants from getting blacklisted (though I'm starting to wonder whether I was projecting too much from my own experience about that, anyway).

All right. If anyone's got comments to make, please do; otherwise, I'll see about amending the rules later on.

[Julianus Soter]

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1338324

There we go.

[Silver Night]

Would you like to explain how that is relevant to the thread, Julianus?

I'm afraid it isn't immediately apparent. 

[Ghost Hunter]

I believe he means to imply using TCMC's as part of this capture system's mechanics for "implantation"?

[Aria Jenneth]

All right, definitely some major changes going in as soon as I can spare the time.

That might be a bit. RP is a siren call I can't afford to fill my ears with just now; letting myself get pulled into this site last week was a major mistake.

See you all in ... five and a half weeks? 

Hopefully I'll be able to get this taken care of sooner than that. I owe it to you guys not to just leave you hanging.

[Julianus Soter]

-_-

The thread is to discuss sansha capture mechanics, yes?

Sansha compromise the TCMC firmware to make users susceptible to nation commands. nation appears in system. "calls" to it's "children". People walk out of their offices, factories, homes, schools, stand in pre-arranged drop zones, scooped up, dropships flee.

Explains the ease of capture, etc.

[Silver Night]

-_-

The thread is to discuss sansha capture mechanics, yes?

Sansha compromise the TCMC firmware to make users susceptible to nation commands. nation appears in system. "calls" to it's "children". People walk out of their offices, factories, homes, schools, stand in pre-arranged drop zones, scooped up, dropships flee.

Explains the ease of capture, etc.

I believe this thread is discussing Aria's player capture mechanic idea specifically. You might check out the rest of the thread, and that link (same one as in the OP) to catch up on the issues that this thread actually addresses. You may, of course, begin your own thread regarding your TCMC ideas as well. 

Hope that clears up the confusion.

[Julianus Soter]

wasn't there a discussion thread somewhere with this exact same name? Wondering how they did it?

[Mebrithiel]

Hey, I think people'd be doing similar if Blood Raiders started random mass involuntary blood drives on inhabited planets.  

Wait.

When did we stop?
 

[Vieve]

Hey, I think people'd be doing similar if Blood Raiders started random mass involuntary blood drives on inhabited planets.  

Wait.

When did we stop?
 

I haven't noticed any recently.  Then again, I've been dead for tax purposes ... or something like that.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Hey, I think people'd be doing similar if Blood Raiders started random mass involuntary blood drives on inhabited planets.  

Wait.

When did we stop?
 

I get the impression that most raids by any group looking to carry off captives are on deep space habitats.

But, no, the covenant never stopped. It's why, personally on an IC level,  I find them much more satisfying to blow up than Angels any day of the week.