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[Jikahr]

IMO, write what you want to write unless you're concerned about it possibly breaking canon/being over the top. If you are concerned, then you can ask for opinions on it and, yes, you could start a topic here under the char development forums to request feedback. A few other people have done that in the past.

I think this is true. No one is going to kick a musician out of their first on-stage rehearsal for playing a sour note. It's hard enough to encourage people to roleplay in EVE without people jumping on you and telling you that you are doing it wrong. The prime fiction is a lot to read, and a lot to remember. It also contradicts itself in places, and there are a few plot holes or things that don't make a lot of logical sense. Yes, we should consider it as canon. However, everyone in EVE and RL is a unique individual with different perspectives, and the world(s) are always changing.

With 'roleplay' that doesn't seem to fit into the EVE milieu, such as James 315 and the 'CODE' of high sec, or people talking about how they are Time Lords from Gallefrey and the Sanshas are the Cyber-men, I just choose to ignore that as roleplay. My in-game, in-character explanation would be that they are insane from a possible booster addiction.

In the real world, how do we react if we see someone suffering from hallucinations and delusions, such as from schizophrenia or another mental illness? What if we encounter people spouting off about things that are nonsensical, such as having three hearts or being the brother of Jesus Christ or something? Most people would ignore them, and their family and friends, and a few trained professionals would try to help them.

I think that is true of the EVE world as well. If you care about them at all, talk to them OOCly if they are in your corp/ alliance/ social circle. Otherwise, ignore them if they aren't. 

I think that's what this blog is useful for. We can discuss things here openly OOCly and point out clashes with prime fiction, logic, writing and role-play styles, and other generally constructive criticism. We generally don't have the opportunity to do that in the chat channels or Intergalactic Summit of EVE.

[Valadeus]

I feel I should clarify my original post a bit.

The point I was making is simply that I respond to in-character conflicts with PF (as my character understands PF) in-character. I try to avoid criticizing anyone OOC about what goes on IC. If, for whatever reason, the situation can't be kept to IC without completely breaking immersion, or there's god-modding or whatever else, then I would first try to talk to the player and if that fails, the last resort is to avoid RPing with them.

[Visian Mu'artarkan]

Well, just as an example, when I jumped back into the fray this week I mentioned that I spent the last 5 years as a clone soldier to explain my disappearance. Immediately, and rightfully, I was jumped on a bit because the two technologies of a DUST soldier and a capsuleer are incompatible. This is inherent truth backed up by PF and CCP Falcon himself. However, Visian didn't spend his time as a DUST operative. He just said he was a clone soldier. He also disappeared before the Sleeper technology was found. While he skirted around explanation when pushed for it, he's not really one to just spill all the secrets behind something. I have what I think is a good explanation for it when I get to writing it.

One thing I would point out is that I read somewhere on the EO forums that CCP Falcon said they couldn't be BOTH at the same time, which Visian never was. He was a podder, then a ground troop, then a podder again. It's a grey area based on what I've read. The indisputable truth is you can't be both at the same time due to the incompatibilities.

That being said, it's one thing to skirt a grey area. It's another thing altogether to go directly against PF. If someone new hasn't got the hang of it and they do that, Visian would just assume that maybe they'e a bit off-kilter like him. Then, I'd probably message them with some advice and suggest some chrons to read. If they still chose to be off their nut, Vapor would likely start suggesting that to them if engaged by them. My two cents.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

There is nothing wrong with filling out the parts of PF that don't have anything, in my opinion.  Of course, if CCP then goes and changes a few things you have to live with those changes, since PF always trumps headcannon.

But at the same time, it's not unknown for CCP to take a look at things written by the RP community and work them into the PF.  I am pretty sure that TS-F had an influence when Sansha's Nation got fleshed out a little bit when they finally started to take a look at the pirates and tried to make them less like comic book villains.

[Silas Vitalia]

As for generating content, it's a big world out there.  The less the new content affects those who don't like it, the better.

Good: "On the lowsec Amarr planet I grew up on we have a holiday for St. Marv, the Saint of brushing teeth"

Bad: "St Marv is the god of teeth brushing, worshipped by every Amarr cluster wide"



YDIW has a direct correlation to the level of Mary Sue / special snowflake going on.

Some people are happy to play well in the very detailed PF sandbox, there's a million stories to tell and a million characters to be within a hugely wide sandbox.

Some people want to be legendary kung fu space princesses manually piloting their battleships from the bridge who own entire planets with day old characters flying shuttles with 5 isk to their name. *shrug*

As with all things its all about attitude, openness to outside criticism from the community, and ability to get along with others.

Unfortunately the limited nature of the EVE client means we have very, very limited methods in a shared game space to have a neutral "DM" arbiter of things.   We're limited to things like ISK, PVP ability, in game character influence, etc as crude stand-ins for role playing.

So when space princess godmods herself a winning everything there's not much that can be done aside from ooc conversation and IIC group ignoring.

[Jikahr]

I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?

I didn't know that only holders could own slaves in Amarr either. I thought that commoners could own slaves as well.

When I was in a roleplaying corp, we had an in character channel and an OOC backstage channel. If someone said something which didn't fit in with PF, we could politely point that out in the OOC channel. If they stubbornly insisted that they were an Amarrian space princess or whatever, we just ignored it. They were told once, they didn't listen, the resources are there for them to consult by themselves.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

Though it can be uncomfortable, you should always try talking to people in these situations, if you can! It might just be due to a misunderstanding, or something pretty trivial, that can be set right with just a bit of discussion - And even if it can't, it's not the end of the world. But if you never try and all, you'll always end up with an awkward rift that might not even need to be there.

[Visian Mu'artarkan]

I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?

I didn't know that only holders could own slaves in Amarr either. I thought that commoners could own slaves as well.

When I was in a roleplaying corp, we had an in character channel and an OOC backstage channel. If someone said something which didn't fit in with PF, we could politely point that out in the OOC channel. If they stubbornly insisted that they were an Amarrian space princess or whatever, we just ignored it. They were told once, they didn't listen, the resources are there for them to consult by themselves.

Form my understanding, they can become DUST Bunnies, they just can't do both at the same time because of incompatible differences in the Jovian Tech of the capsuleers and the Sleeper tech of the ground pounders. I'm guessing at some point that some RPers were maybe saying they were both, which isn't possible according to the PF, CCP Falcon, and many others. Visian was never both at the same time, so I think I'm safe. Maybe. Unless people tell me I'm not at which point I will tweak.

[Samira Kernher]

I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?

Because Dusters and capsuleers work entirely differently.

Capsuleer: Has a normal, human brain. This brain operates like brains normally do. When scanned, it is destroyed and a new one is grown inside the clone, which is once again a normal human brain. For the scan and transfer to be successful, the brain structure and neural mapping must be extremely similar between the two.

Duster: Does not have a normal, human brain. Their core consciousness is uploaded into a computer database. Their clones, meanwhile, have a sleeper implant attached to their brain, and this implant is linked to the database. Their organic brain, meanwhile, has been scrapped in favor of a hypercharged cerebellum to improve their capabilities in combat. There is nothing normal or human about the duster's brain, and ergo doing a transneural burn scan of it would just create a brain dead clone. When they die, there is no flash scan, the clone just dies and the central database receives a brief burst transmission of only variations experienced by the 'life' of that clone, which it then adds to the central file. The database then connects to the sleeper implant in the next clone. In essence, dusters are fundamentally computers, not humans, and their clones are quite literally just shells. Dusters are the true infomorphs, not capsuleers.

Ergo, it is not possible to be both at the same time.

It may be theoretically possible to convert between the two, however. At the very least, going from capsuleer to duster should be easily possible due to capsuleers being functionally still human. But this is basically a one-way thing as you, well, stop being human. Going from duster to capsuleer is more difficult, but as the duster's core consciousness is saved in a computer database, one could theoretically, if having all the specifications saved from when the duster was still human, grow a new brain with the neural map of that consciousness. As this wouldn't wipe the computer database, this would result in two versions of the same person: the duster version, saved on a computer database, and the capsuleer version. Due to CONCORD restrictions about multiple copies of the same person at the same time, doing this would be highly illegal unless the computer database was wiped afterwards.

All of this is described in EVE Source. Notably, it says the same thing I do about converting between the two, "The very act would immediately make the receiving vessel into a different person. It would, as the technologies presently operate, be an inevitable forking of personality into two distinct beings."

That is, of course, assuming that the process of uploading someone's neural map into the computer database does not fundamentally change its neural map. If it does, then there won't be any converting back to human.


For the purpose of this thread's topic, this is a good example of how the situation could be handled. One option would be to just quote the lore and say, "You can't do it, period. Stop." The other solution is to look at the lore, consider the in-character theoretical alternatives that are possible within the confines of the lore, and consider the IC situation as potentially one of those. Thus there is always the option for variations in local culture, experimental technologies, and so on.

The former, arguing about the situation OOC, takes the whole thing OOC, and thus is not preferable, while the latter, contemplating IC alternatives, leaves it IC. That is much superior in my opinion.

[Silas Vitalia]

Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie  characters will be merged to service marketing.

Mark my words. 

[Samira Kernher]

Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie  characters will be merged to service marketing.

Mark my words.

They will, most likely. Which is yet more proof that, theoretically, conversion is possible. It may not be anything more than something undergoing research and development at this point in time, and so any examples of it by players right now can only be purely experimental test subjects, but it is fundamentally possible. Therefore, there is some level of freedom to be creative within this area.

[Visian Mu'artarkan]

I didn't know that capsuleers could never become Dusters. How does that make sense? What do the Space Marines do? How do the Dusters travel from planet to planet?

Because Dusters and capsuleers work entirely differently.

Capsuleer: Has a normal, human brain. This brain operates like brains normally do. When scanned, it is destroyed and a new one is grown inside the clone, which is once again a normal human brain. For the scan and transfer to be successful, the brain structure and neural mapping must be extremely similar between the two.

Duster: Does not have a normal, human brain. Their core consciousness is uploaded into a computer database. Their clones, meanwhile, have a sleeper implant attached to their brain, and this implant is linked to the database. Their organic brain, meanwhile, has been scrapped in favor of a hypercharged cerebellum to improve their capabilities in combat. There is nothing normal or human about the duster's brain, and ergo doing a transneural burn scan of it would just create a brain dead clone. When they die, there is no flash scan, the clone just dies and the central database receives a brief burst transmission of only variations experienced by the 'life' of that clone, which it then adds to the central file. The database then connects to the sleeper implant in the next clone. In essence, dusters are fundamentally computers, not humans, and their clones are quite literally just shells. Dusters are the true infomorphs, not capsuleers.

Ergo, it is not possible to be both at the same time.

It may be theoretically possible to convert between the two, however. At the very least, going from capsuleer to duster should be easily possible due to capsuleers being functionally still human. But this is basically a one-way thing as you, well, stop being human. Going from duster to capsuleer is more difficult, but as the duster's core consciousness is saved in a computer database, one could theoretically, if having all the specifications saved from when the duster was still human, grow a new brain with the neural map of that consciousness. As this wouldn't wipe the computer database, this would result in two versions of the same person: the duster version, saved on a computer database, and the capsuleer version. Due to CONCORD restrictions about multiple copies of the same person at the same time, doing this would be highly illegal unless the computer database was wiped afterwards.

All of this is described in EVE Source. Notably, it says the same thing I do about converting between the two, "The very act would immediately make the receiving vessel into a different person. It would, as the technologies presently operate, be an inevitable forking of personality into two distinct beings."

That is, of course, assuming that the process of uploading someone's neural map into the computer database does not fundamentally change its neural map. If it does, then there won't be any converting back to human.


For the purpose of this thread's topic, this is a good example of how the situation could be handled. One option would be to just quote the lore and say, "You can't do it, period. Stop." The other solution is to look at the lore, consider the in-character theoretical alternatives that are possible within the confines of the lore, and consider the IC situation as potentially one of those. Thus there is always the option for variations in local culture, experimental technologies, and so on.

The former, arguing about the situation OOC, takes the whole thing OOC, and thus is not preferable, while the latter, contemplating IC alternatives, leaves it IC. That is much superior in my opinion.

I just ordered EVE Source today, so that is actually very helpful for me Sam. Thanks!

[Samira Kernher]

Np.

[Jikahr]

Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie  characters will be merged to service marketing.

Mark my words.

I imagine so. What is the rationale behind why capsuleers have a normal human brain (plus implants) while DUSTies have a cybernetic brain? From my perspective it should be the other way around. What takes more brain power, running around on the surface of a planet and pulling the trigger on a gun, or flying a battleship in space with your mind?

Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.

Also, I don't see the point in it. Is it just a bunch of technological mumbo jumbo to explain why CCP hasn't managed to make the DUST world and EVE connect yet? 

For the purpose of this thread's topic, this is a good example of how the situation could be handled. One option would be to just quote the lore and say, "You can't do it, period. Stop." The other solution is to look at the lore, consider the in-character theoretical alternatives that are possible within the confines of the lore, and consider the IC situation as potentially one of those. Thus there is always the option for variations in local culture, experimental technologies, and so on.

The former, arguing about the situation OOC, takes the whole thing OOC, and thus is not preferable, while the latter, contemplating IC alternatives, leaves it IC. That is much superior in my opinion.

True. We can tell someone that they aren't doing their character in the right way, or we can accept that everyone has their own interpretation and personalities both in game and real life. If I say 'red bicycle', an image of a bicycle pops into your mind. Everyone may have a different image of a different bike, but which one is correct?

Prime fiction says that the Amarrians are religious. When the word 'religion' comes to mind, everyone has a different definition. Some of us may picture a corrupt Pope or the Spanish Inquisition, or Reverend Phelps and the Westboro Church, others may picture a Monastery full of peaceful, cerebral Monks or Mother Teresa. They may be prejudiced reductionism, but none of these are false descriptors for the word 'Religion'.

[Silas Vitalia]

Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.

Veering off topic but I'll take exception to that characterization.  Today's ground pounders have much, much, much more to deal with, both information wise and tactically.

I'm not as well versed in this as others but if I recall current US and many other countries tactical doctrines mandate an extremely high level of 'autonomy' for small units, without the regimented command structure of armies like China / North Korea, etc.  The idea is to be smart, fast, flexible, adaptive to any situation, instead of a giant hierarchical command structure that is paralyzed to move quickly.

So I'd say the reverse; that it takes in general less critical thinking to man a computer station on a Navy boat vs managing a rolling fight as say, a Marine.