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[Jace]

I'm hoping this can stay a civil discussion and topic. Trying to keep it general so nobody feels threatened.

What are your thoughts on trends developing in the roleplaying community, or perhaps just segments of it, that are . . . wrong. Contradictory to PF, etc.

Perhaps the people involved interpreted things wrong. Perhaps they sort of made their own 'spin' and it took off, but then it starts to dominate an entire area of PF in a certain group (for instance, the trend in the past with certain Amarr roleplayers to have an extremely specific vision of the Amarr religion and throwing heretic around without a moment's thought if anyone does not portray a comic book villain version of an Amarr). Perhaps more PF is released later on that solidifies certain interpretations/conceptions, but the aforementioned people won't give up their pet concepts.

How do you as roleplayers handle that sort of situation? Find like-minded people and ignore the rest? Try to change the metaculture of that PF, fight against it? Etc.

It seems to me that at certain moments player-generated trends can be great, but other times they happen due to specific corporations and their membership's activity on the IGS or elsewhere - not because it has anything to do with PF, anything to do with how their faction or fiction idea actually fits within the EVE universe. Some of these become incredibly ingrained over the years, because the people that generate those trends or conceptions feel defensive over them and try to instill some level of 'authority' to it - as if going back to the PF and really examining it somehow would threaten what they have been doing for the past years.

Capsuleers are by definition independent to a certain extent. It is not at all inconceivable that a group of them start to have their own slightly 'off' interpretation of their identities - so it is not inconceivable from an in-character perspective. But when this happens, the people involved do not seem content to leave it to their characters but start to impose their player-created lore onto their entire faction.

How do you, as a roleplayer, handle that sort of thing? Ignore? Fight back? Find your own group?

[Valadeus]

Prime Fiction = Historical fact or current events

Anyone proclaiming that the Holocaust didn't happen will be treated by me as seriously deluded or intentionally misleading others.

Anyone acting contrary to Prime Fiction receives the same treatment from my characters.

[Dessau]

Well, I don't think it's necessarily wrong to try to put your own spin on PF, or even to attempt to influence a metaculture with regard to that portion of PF, so long as you understand that in the end you are almost absolutely impotent in the face of the rest of the cluster (or, in other words, CCP's determination of history, as well as players' application of that history to their own arcs).

OOC, players tend to recognize this and I think it is natural for that knowledge to bleed into IC reactions toward that sort of content, where one common result is IC/OOC aversion to the generating character's or corporation's milieu.

As with player/corp/alliance interactions in the sandbox, I think there is a desire for a dynamic and evolving lore, which gives rise to interpretations that are sometimes problematic. I can't fault players for trying, but I try to simply step back slowly if I run into those interpretations, since I am not an authority to 'correct' anyone.

[Louella Dougans]

1. try and talk to them OOC about the thing.

2. make a neutral toned thread in the background forum, stating the bits of PF that I know about, about the thing. Invite people to contribute bits of PF that they know about, about the thing.

3. If people still do the thing, then vOv


Without a specific example, I don't know how to really answer. But of course, specific examples can be controversial, so maybe PM me a specific example.

[Jace]

1. try and talk to them OOC about the thing.

2. make a neutral toned thread in the background forum, stating the bits of PF that I know about, about the thing. Invite people to contribute bits of PF that they know about, about the thing.

3. If people still do the thing, then vOv


Without a specific example, I don't know how to really answer. But of course, specific examples can be controversial, so maybe PM me a specific example.

I understand the difficulty of not providing the example I have in mind, but I'm going to avoid it. I'm just curious whether people consider it worth combating or whether they'd just go their separate ways. It seems to me that this is a significant part of the fracturing of factions and groups, besides the standard OOC drama aspects.

[Louella Dougans]

1. try and talk to them OOC about the thing.

2. make a neutral toned thread in the background forum, stating the bits of PF that I know about, about the thing. Invite people to contribute bits of PF that they know about, about the thing.

3. If people still do the thing, then vOv


Without a specific example, I don't know how to really answer. But of course, specific examples can be controversial, so maybe PM me a specific example.

I understand the difficulty of not providing the example I have in mind, but I'm going to avoid it. I'm just curious whether people consider it worth combating or whether they'd just go their separate ways. It seems to me that this is a significant part of the fracturing of factions and groups, besides the standard OOC drama aspects.

If it's a big enough issue, it's worth trying to resolve the conflict.

Like, if ships have crew on them, then it's worth trying to resolve it.

If it's something like, whether or not the earlobe is considered an erogenous zone in contemporary Mannar culture, then... vOv

[Katrina Oniseki]

whether or not the earlobe is considered an erogenous zone in contemporary Mannar culture

Classic Lou post right here, guys.

[Louella Dougans]

whether or not the earlobe is considered an erogenous zone in contemporary Mannar culture

Classic Lou post right here, guys.

The PF is quite ambiguous on this, critically important, issue !

[Makoto Priano]

The one advantage we have is that CCP has set up most of the major empires/factions/etc in such a way that we can basically pick from our desired subculture, social movement, tribe, or whatnot. The issue is when a player or a set of players declares that only one interpretation is accurate.

For instance, the Caldari: are the Caldari all space fascists who sacrifice themselves for the Greater Corporate Good? Welllll... no. Are -some- Caldari space fascists who sacrifice themselves for the Greater Corporate Good? Sure. Absolutely. Run with it.

The variations on this are many, but that's my basic angle.

[Dessau]

Lou raises another point: in the absence of any pertinent PF, how do we measure the plausibility of player content, or its value within the subcommunities it is meant to inhabit?

Meh, I'm stuffed with flu medication and can't rightly turn this line of questioning back onto the original topic, so fook it.

[Louella Dougans]

Lou raises another point: in the absence of any pertinent PF, how do we measure the plausibility of player content, or its value within the subcommunities it is meant to inhabit?

for like, Minmatar things, then something that has a nordic influence, is more plausible than something with influences from other languages/cultures, because of the nordic influence that CCP has given to Minmatar things.

Feels a lot less forced when it fits with things already established, than trying to make something entirely new.

[Jace]

Though we should also be careful about assigning some kind of 'proper' influence to something that was likely just a quick borrowing. RCC Amarr comes to mind, in that regard.

[Samira Kernher]

I believe in taking everything IC when and where possible. I prefer to avoid slipping into OOC criticism if at all possible.

It's a big universe. It is very easy to come up with ways for the existence of exceptions to the norm, and to therefore respond to it as an IC curiosity (or deviancy).

If it is something that really rubs me the wrong way, then I just try to avoid interacting with it too much. I might point it out OOCly if I know the person and think it might help, otherwise I'll probably just leave it alone.

In a previous RP community under a different universe, when things like this happened I tended to write long, heavily-sourced guides on the stuff that I saw as people widely doing it wrong. I prefer this kind of positive reinforcement through expanding public understanding and access to knowledge on the subject over the negative reinforcement of attacking people OOC for their RP.

[Anyanka Funk]

I would like to put Anyanka on the stake here. If any one finds her portrayal of Sani Sabik as generating the wrong content please use her as an example. I'd love the input.

This is the main reason I have stayed away from worldbuilding as well. Sometimes we see people's world building as totally excepted by the general rp community while other times we see people's ideas essentially shunned. I would love to write about Anyanka's childhood and reasons for the way she is. She is from a small underground city on Hek V. I would love to call that city Sjornjost and have her childhood friend named Halfrek Foley but I think that would somehow be copyright infringement to Joss Whedon.

New Eden is a big place so who says that I can't write Anya's history that way? But then again should I actually go post my idea on backstage for a very small groups' opinion on it or just write what I want to write? This is not a rhetorical. I really want to know. And "you should know the answer" is never an acceptable response to any question.

[Samira Kernher]

IMO, write what you want to write unless you're concerned about it possibly breaking canon/being over the top. If you are concerned, then you can ask for opinions on it and, yes, you could start a topic here under the char development forums to request feedback. A few other people have done that in the past.