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[Esna Pitoojee]

Though it can be uncomfortable, you should always try talking to people in these situations, if you can! It might just be due to a misunderstanding, or something pretty trivial, that can be set right with just a bit of discussion - And even if it can't, it's not the end of the world. But if you never try and all, you'll always end up with an awkward rift that might not even need to be there.

To get back on topic, I cannot understate how helpful this can be. I am always willing to reach out a friendly hand to someone who I think is 'violating PF' - heck, not just a couple days ago there was a situation where someone was being told they were overstretching their IC influence by claiming something. Turned out, people were taking what their character claimed at face value and assuming it was literally identical to what he was OOC saying the character had, which wasn't accurate at all.


To get back to the OP's question, though, when a trend becomes so widespread in the RP community that it becomes "accepted", I see nothing wrong with continuing to engage in friendly debate and pointing out the inconsistencies in it.  There are issues which I OOC and Esna IC both feel are currently being addressed very poorly by the RP community, but rather than dumping a post going "you're wrong, and you, and you're wrong too", which would almost certainly quickly descend in a flamewar, I will continue to argue my points and represent my position.

If a character continues to insist on including things in their RP that I consider PF-breaking, I will probably just not interact with that character.

[Jikahr]

Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.

Veering off topic but I'll take exception to that characterization.  Today's ground pounders have much, much, much more to deal with, both information wise and tactically.

I'm not as well versed in this as others but if I recall current US and many other countries tactical doctrines mandate an extremely high level of 'autonomy' for small units, without the regimented command structure of armies like China / North Korea, etc.  The idea is to be smart, fast, flexible, adaptive to any situation, instead of a giant hierarchical command structure that is too paralyzed to move quickly.

So I'd say the reverse; that it takes in general less critical thinking to man a computer station on a Navy boat vs managing a rolling fight as say, a Marine.

Possibly. Also in both instances the Navy and the Army in a time of war will take just about anyone that passes the physical. Then, they screen them to find out where they belong. A math genius will end up in artillery or the radio room, a tactical genius will eventually end up in command of a ship or a unit, and the less competent will be placed in food preparation or supply, or some other position of little or no authority. The Navy and Army are both large institutions with a variety of roles to fill. 

Also, I think that Samira's explanation specified the cerebellum, which is the part of the brain responsible for balance, coordination, etc. So DUSTies wouldn't have cybernetic enhanced intelligence, just cybernetic enhanced athleticism.

[Silas Vitalia]

Making a new thread on some relevant stoof.

[Samira Kernher]

Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie  characters will be merged to service marketing.

Mark my words.

I imagine so. What is the rationale behind why capsuleers have a normal human brain (plus implants) while DUSTies have a cybernetic brain? From my perspective it should be the other way around. What takes more brain power, running around on the surface of a planet and pulling the trigger on a gun, or flying a battleship in space with your mind?

Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.

Also, I don't see the point in it. Is it just a bunch of technological mumbo jumbo to explain why CCP hasn't managed to make the DUST world and EVE connect yet?

It's not a matter of processor power, it's a matter of transfer capabilities.

Simply, standard cloning requires the person to be inclosed in a small area where conditions can be strictly monitored in order for the burn scan to fire off safely. Hence the pod. This guarantees that there won't be issues of the burn scanner firing off too soon (or too late), because it can work under a very strict rule: Unauthorized breach of pod, fire scan.

This doesn't work on the ground because the burn scanner is too big to be lugged around and the conditions are too chaotic for it to judge accurately when to fire.

The sleeper implant, on the other hand, is capable of containing the entire conscious state on a digital medium within the body. As such, the brain itself can be converted into a monitor and control system. When the body dies, the implant likely remains 'active', because it is probably an independently-powered device. Short of a very unlucky shot striking the implant directly, the implant can operate under much more exacting conditions even on the battlefield, waiting until full body-brain death is verified before sending its transmission. In other words, it has a several-second larger window of opportunity than the burn scanner does, which is huge.

The most important reason, though, is that the sleeper technology is far newer. Capsuleers are still using technology developed a decade ago. Theoretically, there may come a time in which the sleeper implant is used in capsuleers instead of the older transneural brain scanner technology, but currently that is not the case.

Sources below.

[spoiler]The burning scanner raises the very problem of full mind-body cloning that the capsule solves. Since the scanner and its support systems are housed in a bank of equipment which requires close and stable proximity to the brain, it is in no way possible to wear the technology on one's person. Mounting the equipment in vehicles and even flight decks is problematic as wel, since the scanner needs to fire within a precise window of time, right at the subject's death. False stimuli, momentary separation from the equipment, or accidents that can take place in unsealed environments are all problems that can cause misfiring of the scanner. ...

The hydrostatic capsule provides a nearly ideal solution to the problems posed by the transneural burning scanner. in the first place, it is a sealed environment with a very clear set of tolerances and breach parameters. If the capsule breaches without the proper authorizations, the system assumes a catastrophic situation and instantly administers a nanotoxin that produces a reliable death process in the pilot. The burning scanner can therefore safely operate within the precise window required. Moreover, the scanner can and has been successfully integrated into capsule systems to take advantage of its power, data storage, and FTL communications capabilities.

- A Tale of Two Technologies, EVE Source[/spoiler]

[spoiler]... the mercenary clone is limited by cosniderations of transmission range. It has been established that the personality-transfer technology does not use quantum entanglement. A supersoldier who is accidentally abandoned on a planet for five years is in dire circumstances, because the life span of a mercenary clone's body is apparently no longer than that. He will die and lose fire years of his life. Still, he will return, because his core personality data is held in the vast databanks of his corporation's infrastructure. He may even have been assumed killed in action and reanimated into a new clone the day after being marooned, a rather undesirable eventuality that would end up essentially creating a second copy of the individual soldier.

The important point to realize about the immortal soldiers and the capsuleers is that they are very different beings indeed. They may both be infomorphs of a kind, but those kinds are distinct. The capsuleers re-create themselves in full, or at least as close as possible, every time they clone. Every scrap of neural data, every linkage in the structure of their brains, is transferred and reproduced anew. They crave the authenticity of the experience; any fleeting breaks in their consciousnesses are generally dismissed as unimportant.

The mercenary is different entirely. His brain structure has been altered to serve the needs of the cloning technology. His entire personality and essential being is shifted out of that brain--which ahs been rearranged heavily to act as a hybrid of primal being and highly efficient control system--and into an entirely digital existence within the neuro-interface socket (NIS) at the back of the neck. The information stored in this personality stack is everything that makes him who he is as a clone trooper. Everything else has long since been abandoned.

When the mercenary is killed, his NIS has only to transmit the new data that is not stored back at the CRU and MCC banks. In effect, it is a kind of personality data difference file. A powerful burst transmissio suffices to update the core stacks. The range of this transmission is debated, but it is certainly no more than orbital, roughly speaking--a far, far cry from the theoretically unlimited range of capsuleer quantum entanglement. The radically different nature and scope of personality transmission for the capsuleer and the mercenary should at once be noted. There is no sense in which a capsuleer can seamlessly transfer to a mercenary clone, or vice versa. The very act would immediately make the receiving vessel into a different person. It would, as the technologies presently operate, be an inevitable forking of personality into two distinct beings.

-Rise of the Clone Soldiers, EVE Source[/spoiler]

[Jikahr]

Back on topic then.

Personally, I wonder if CCP shouldn't introduce some in game mechanic to encourage and promote roleplay. I used to play the text based game 'Achaea'. Since it was all text and no visuals, roleplay became easy and natural. Granted, a lot of it was through the story generated by the game itself.

One thing I do remember that I liked though, were the battle cry and the death cry. I think that adding these to EVE would help stimulate more roleplay. The battle cry would be a sentence that you choose before hand, which is shouted as soon as you activated a weapon. The death cry would be your last words as you were podded.

I am also wondering about things like in game religious Orders. It was quite thrilling for me in Achaea when I was finally accepted into an Order. The Amarrians are defined as being religious, but religion is a complex thing with many hierarchies, ranks and layers.

What I would propose would be the creations of religious Orders, possibly through a mailing list. These Orders would have a ranking system somehow related to role-playing ability and how it relates to the prime fiction. There would be quarterly ceremonies with rituals every three months, corresponding to the solstices and equinoxes. Ranks could be awarded based on participation and adherence to orthodoxy. Minmatar can have their lodges and societies, Caldari and Gallente can have their Temples and Shrines and so on. More than anything else, Religion (or lack of) culturally defines a nation and it's people.

What I tend to find immersion breaking are the people who think role-play is ridiculous. They make fun of role-players, and constantly refer to the game mechanics. Is EVE just a big chess game for these people?

[Jikahr]

Dusties / Capsuleers / Valkyrie  characters will be merged to service marketing.

Mark my words.

I imagine so. What is the rationale behind why capsuleers have a normal human brain (plus implants) while DUSTies have a cybernetic brain? From my perspective it should be the other way around. What takes more brain power, running around on the surface of a planet and pulling the trigger on a gun, or flying a battleship in space with your mind?

Even today, it takes more brain power to be in the Navy than in the Army. A battleship is a big machine full of other machines floating in the water. A soldier merely has to be physically fit and remember how to follow orders.

Also, I don't see the point in it. Is it just a bunch of technological mumbo jumbo to explain why CCP hasn't managed to make the DUST world and EVE connect yet?

It's not a matter of processor power, it's a matter of transfer capabilities.

So in some ways it is like the difference between a record player and an I-pod I suppose? They both play the same music, but if one is moved or not level enough the needle will skip across the record, but the more portable I-pod will continue to play the same song even if shaken, dropped, or immersed under water?

I wonder how that brain scrambler pistol affects those Sleeper implants?

[Jace]

If a character continues to insist on including things in their RP that I consider PF-breaking, I will probably just not interact with that character.

This is what I am trying to avoid. My temporary solution has been to just switch what characters I RP with to avoid the issue in my long-time faction and that may be working out better than I thought. New fun things to write.

But most of the OOC contact I've had with the people involved literally responded with something along the lines of "CCP fucked up on that, they shouldn't have made that PF. So I'm going to ignore it."

There's really not much you can do with that.

[Elmund Egivand]

Lou raises another point: in the absence of any pertinent PF, how do we measure the plausibility of player content, or its value within the subcommunities it is meant to inhabit?

for like, Minmatar things, then something that has a nordic influence, is more plausible than something with influences from other languages/cultures, because of the nordic influence that CCP has given to Minmatar things.

Feels a lot less forced when it fits with things already established, than trying to make something entirely new.

In my opinion, the Matari, or at least Sebiestors, are a strange amalgam of Nordic and Caucasus tribes (i.e. Cossacks or etc) considering the environment they come from.

As for the 'doing it wrong'? I do not ignore those, but I have my character treat those people as insane...and interesting study material. Yes, Elmund's not a scientist. No, it's not going to stop him.