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[Jace]

eve source, 1st edition, hardback, ISBN 978-1-61655-271-8

p 154.

"The Sani Sabik universally believe in the Red God."

I won't quote, but on the next page of EVE: Source, pg. 155. It says that the members of the society of Blood Raiders and thus Sani Sabik have burial rights (which also implies they are physically buried after death) which include writing their names in a Book of the Dead. Then it states that even the members who do not believe in fantastical or intangible aspects of the religion are still part of this society by keeping Sani Sabik alive.

I just reread all of that bit today, and it seemed to imply people that are essentially 'employees.' Go along with everything because it's what you do if you live in those parts of Delve and want to join, but don't actually believe any of it. At least that's how I read it.

[Silas Vitalia]

We might want to make a distinction between "Omir's" spinoff of the Sabik and Sabik in general.   

Omir took over one particular Sabik Cult and built them up into a pirate cartel, changing their beliefs and religion to reflect his wishes.

Not the same as various Sabik across New Eden, especially old-school True Amarr Sabik.

[Anyanka Funk]

I thought the distinction was clear. This thread is about The Blood Raider Covenant,  not Sani Sabik in general and especially not True Amarr Sabik.

[Jace]

As Sami said, the difficulty is that Source has several instances where it refers to 'Sabik,' such as the universalism of Red God (in whatever form), and other parts of the Raider article where it is talking about Raiders specifically.

[Anyanka Funk]

eve source, 1st edition, hardback, ISBN 978-1-61655-271-8

p 154.

"The Sani Sabik universally believe in the Red God."

I won't quote, but on the next page of EVE: Source, pg. 155. It says that the members of the society of Blood Raiders and thus Sani Sabik have burial rights (which also implies they are physically buried after death) which include writing their names in a Book of the Dead. Then it states that even the members who do not believe in fantastical or intangible aspects of the religion are still part of this society by keeping Sani Sabik alive.

I just reread all of that bit today, and it seemed to imply people that are essentially 'employees.' Go along with everything because it's what you do if you live in those parts of Delve and want to join, but don't actually believe any of it. At least that's how I read it.

It gives a general overview of a religious society in the future. In-game,  the Blood Raider agents mention Covenant Law but do not specify too much about it. In EVE: Source they mention secular rules but only specify that they don't include fantastical or intangible beliefs.

Also , a little to add to this discussion, a note about the Book of the Dead. Anya asked quite a few Sani Sabik roleplayers about their belief in the red god. An interesting answer was given by Vlad Cetes. No, that character does not believe in red god but does claim to be Sani Sabik. He also told me he was in the Covenant's book since that was granted by helping Asias Urazmie with an event some time ago. That would be clear indication of the way the Covenant works.

[Samira Kernher]

As Sami said, the difficulty is that Source has several instances where it refers to 'Sabik,' such as the universalism of Red God (in whatever form), and other parts of the Raider article where it is talking about Raiders specifically.

Well as I said, the issue with it is that Source interchanges using 'blood raider' and 'sabik' in referring to the same thing. The blood raider chapter refers to blood raiders as if they were the only sani sabik sect and their culture applies to all of them, while then saying that blood raiders are not the only sect and are very different from most other sects. The golden vial thing especially should be only a blood raider thing, not a sabik thing, because the golden vial was something that was unique to Antar--he carried his drugs in it--who later became a leading blood raider and had never been part of any non-raider sani sabik sect. Ergo it makes sense that the golden vial idea could have spread from Antar to the rest of the blood raiders, but not that it's suddenly a universal thing for all sani sabik sects everywhere when most of them have no idea who Antar is nor any reason to care about him if they did; plenty of sani sabik sects don't like or agree with the blood raiders, afterall.

[Jace]

I agree with that, but there are portions of it where they seem to be intentionally talking about Sabik's. I mean, to use the word 'universal' with the Red God part certainly seems intentional. You don't accidentally phrase it like that. It then starts talking about a couple ways of interpreting it, which seem to be a bit more Raider specific.

But with how much the various PF continually reference the divergent and myriad nature of the Sabik sects, this really isn't one of those that I would ever try to YDIW someone if they wanted a more old-school, church-style cult.

[Samira Kernher]

I'm not saying it wasn't intentional where they do try to do that. I'm saying it was stupid.

Sani Sabik RP is best when there's variety, when the Blood Raiders represent only one unique sect among many. Having more than the most basic commonalities between the sects reduces the allure of it.

[Jace]

Not to derail the thread, but since we are talking about Source I just have to say that I think the Gallente section was surprisingly the best overall section. It feels ironic to me, considering how few Feddy RPers we see around now. Second best, in my opinion, would be the Gurista section.

I didn't mind the Raider section much and I did like some of the retconning, especially getting rid of the idea that Omir replaced targeting children with clones. That never made sense to me. There are far too few available clones to raid to replace children.

[Lyn Farel]

They raided everyone anyway. Children and especially clones happened to be the pristine blood, nothing else.

[Jace]

They raided everyone anyway. Children and especially clones happened to be the pristine blood, nothing else.

Your flippancy is inaccurate. There are several references to 'targeting.' These sort of topics are relevant.

[Lyn Farel]

I don't understand how it is contrary to what I said... ?

[Anyanka Funk]

As Sami said, the difficulty is that Source has several instances where it refers to 'Sabik,' such as the universalism of Red God (in whatever form), and other parts of the Raider article where it is talking about Raiders specifically.

Well as I said, the issue with it is that Source interchanges using 'blood raider' and 'sabik' in referring to the same thing. The blood raider chapter refers to blood raiders as if they were the only sani sabik sect and their culture applies to all of them, while then saying that blood raiders are not the only sect and are very different from most other sects. The golden vial thing especially should be only a blood raider thing, not a sabik thing, because the golden vial was something that was unique to Antar--he carried his drugs in it--who later became a leading blood raider and had never been part of any non-raider sani sabik sect. Ergo it makes sense that the golden vial idea could have spread from Antar to the rest of the blood raiders, but not that it's suddenly a universal thing for all sani sabik sects everywhere when most of them have no idea who Antar is nor any reason to care about him if they did; plenty of sani sabik sects don't like or agree with the blood raiders, afterall.

Just for anyone's info; Antar did not originate the golden vial tradition within the Sani Sabik. In The Burning Life, Drem's grandmother as well as others at Drem's brother's wake were wearing red filled golden vials and rubbing them as they chanted.

[Samira Kernher]

Huh. I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the info. I really need to pick up the books, but can't find them in stores or on torrents. :/

[Anyanka Funk]

Something else I want to add, an observation. In The Burning Life, Drem's brother Leip died of Sabik's Sepsis, a blood disease. It is a rare disease that he was born with and usually goes away by puberty. We can only assume about how one gets this disease. But having this blood disease in adulthood was cause for any new children related to Leip to be denied entry into the book of dead and shunned from their society unless they struck Leip solely, which meant he could not have a funeral or be buried. Even with diseased blood Leip's immediate family still wanted to have a funeral for him. Which would mean they would bleed him, drink his blood and consume his flesh. I assume drinking his poisoned blood would not just be sacrilege but taint their blood as well. But maybe not. But if it does taint their blood as well then I assume adults would have built an immunity to the disease by constantly fortifying their blood which a child has not done yet. Drem states that the Bleeder is lashing out at the children in the family to get Leip removed from the book of dead. But I think maybe there might actually be a health concern there that the Bleeder is trying to take care of before it or word of it spreads.