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[Katrina Oniseki]

faction war killed chatsubo.

live events killed backstage.

I did read that live events thread trainwreck in the catacombs earlier ... that was an interesting 180 from some of the people involved.

That was such a train wreck.

[Louella Dougans]

I don't remember which thread that might be.

[Khloe]

If you don't mind a recommendation from a long dormant eve player with no active accounts...

• Create a 'RETIRED' title for those of us who aren't active in-game. It might be handy for moderators and other participants to get some perspective on the responses from retired players and gauge the vibrancy of the roleplay community. For example, if a vast majority of your forum participants aren't playing eve, it could identify another problem.

• Having immersed myself in the EVE community for many years, it's been my experience that forums in general have been a draining experience to be a participant in and glean something positive from. Individuals can't simply express their individual perspectives or vision for the world of New Eden because there are strict adherents to PF who will argue that individual license will interfere with others. There are also those who have different perspectives on the same area of interest who will argue their perspective because they 'invested so much time and energy' and thus feel like they should be the primary spokesman for that subset, and eventually it either breaks down because no one wants to listen or individuals will take a side in support of their friends or a faction. It's by this time that the original posters of the idea drop out of the conversation, because they feel like the scope of the discussion has diverted millions of miles from their original point. There's a persistent tone of apathetic apprehension, where the original discussion fails to deliver solid input from the community, but a minor point of controversy sparks a wider debate that ultimately never gets resolved. Is it the forum's place to resolve these differences of opinion that spread dissension between members of a community? Not necessarily, but I think it's worth recognizing that it has an impact on discussions here. What can you do about it? Well, despite the population of the game, the RP community is and always will be small in comparison. Perhaps making less of a personal investment in your 'concepts' of New Eden RP will allow you to be less critical or inflexible of other viewpoints? (That might not be possible for some people)

• In the later years of play when I was much less active due to RL and such that I saw a different side of actual IN-game RP. Specifically, very tight-knit groups of RPers who were suspicious of new faces (for a variety of good reasons), carried intense IC/OOC rivalries with other groups that were more than willing to spread to the new people they did accept, and a general sense of apathy toward people who may not have been established who tried to get their name out there only to receive static in the depths of space. I've suggested this before, but perhaps rather than simply organizing RP groups around specific factions or channels, instead organize troupes of roleplayers like a theatre company, who all abide by specific standards, rules, or perspectives of New Eden RP, then advertise their group in search of people with like-minded interests. It may not be as organic as people would appreciate, but it could open up some opportunities outside of the standard RP channel/faction dilemma that RPers are have been faced with for a while.

[Mizhara]

Some people, like Mizhara for example, simply stopped participating after a temp ban, giving the appearance that a p.ban was issued where one was not.

You mention Miz and I’m glad because ...

FWIW, the reason Miz stopped posting was not actually that initial temp ban (he had several over the course of several years), it was that he came back on another account after an extended break, he immediately started posting in exactly the same problematic fashion as he had been posting before he left, and when the moderation team gave him a warning - and pointed out that his new account was not going to be considered a 'reset' on his record - he flipped his shit and ragequit. (I've said it a few times over the years in a variety of threads, but as a reminder, mods/admins DO see the IP address you use to post here, and we do make note of it if there's problematic behavior coming from multiple accounts at one IP address. No, before anyone suggests it, we don't use it for anything but admin/moderation-related stuff on the forum.)

Good to see that shitposting about absent people is alive and well in this place, from moderators even.

I quit these forums because moderators/admins gave out user information to others. I was hounded twice by non-mods in-game using the information only available to mods/admins on this forum. Which mod decided to give out the admin logs from Backstage to others, I don't know but it most certainly happened.

The thing about fresh starts are that they're not really fresh starts when moderators and admins of a place decide to hand these things out to anyone and everyone. Of course, it's up to Backstage's mods and admins to decide what's appropriate behaviour in these situations but at least you can be decent enough not to make shit up about people when they decide to leave a community behind. There's no need to take it personally when they decide to excuse themselves from somewhere. I would have thought it was a welcome decision, no?

Bans, temporary or not, annoy me greatly when I see mods and admins get away with worse (example up above) but they've never been enough to rile me up for long. Giving out personal information I trusted the Backstage team with keeping confidential like any decent place where there's a user registry? This kills the participation.

Please stop making shit up. It's unbecoming.

ETA: It's somewhat flattering to still be the subject of Jade's and Morwen's grudges, even after such an absence of course. It does seem a bit obsessive though, does it not?

[Katrina Oniseki]

Your signature still makes me smile though, Miz. 

[Jade Constantine]

It's hardly a grudge Mizhara - I just found it somewhat amusing that a person who was vocally in favor of an extreme moderation regime at the end of Chatsubo was amongst the first to discover the consequences of such a regime at Backstage. Even you must admit some surprise and irony that it was you, not Revan or I who managed to get banned first from Backstage forums!

Or on a more serious note. Perhaps its worth re-evaluating some of your opinions and views Mizhara? My only issue with you really was I felt you were too fast to accuse others of rudeness and disrespect while you to often gave that precise perception through your own posting. I think historically you have been too blind to your own faults (most of us are of course).

Backstage is not my personal preference of forum - its not how I would ideally want moderation to be carried out. But it is how the admins and founders decided it should be and they did write a plain set of rules and guidelines to follow - perhaps in the end they were right and I was wrong - because it has seen virtually all of my long-term debating foes from Chatsubo vanquished in various ways - still the nub of it is : I can follow the rules as a requirement for entry here - why couldn't you?
 

[Mizhara]

The Catacombs largely being composed of my posts in the early days of Backstage is and was no real issue for me, Jade. It's really not any part of why I left these boards or the RP community in general. Having my real life impacted by something very close to doxxing by an unknown admin/mod is on the other hand an egregious issue which shouldn't surprise anyone when it results in leaving. Or "ragequitting" as mods seem to prefer calling it.

[Morwen Lagann]

Nobody handed out any information. People figured out it was you ingame first.

You are just particularly bad at hiding your alts ingame because the way you talk and respond to certain things does not change.

[Mizhara]

Yeah, that's why they quoted IP addresses at me. I tend to throw them into the conversation every once in a while.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I do remember people saying Miz's IP address and the IP address of the accused alt were the same. I don't recall who said that to me or how they got the information, but I'd be willing to bet it came from Backstage - and I'd also be willing to wager only mods can compare IP addresses. So, if my hunch is correct, somewhere along the line a moderator let loose that Miz and [alt/person] were using the same IP address, and told someone else about it. Presumably, the grapevine carried it to me.

That itself isn't really "handing out personal information", as the IP address itself was never given. It is however using moderator abilities to determine and publicly 'out' an alt. Grey-area, imho.

[Mizhara]

My actual IP address was quoted to me by non-mods. It was given out.

[Jade Constantine]

Eve RP and RP discussion forum moderation / in-game channel administration has always been serious business.

One of my lingering regrets over eve is that people didn't spend as much effort building in-game organizations to fight in-game wars as they did socially-engineering feuds in the RP community to ostracize and outlaw their foes from decent society as a means of fighting the meta war without fighting in space.

If a mod betrayed confidence to out your alts Mizhara that's meta and might (depending on the ethical vision of the forum be "shitty play", but its hardly illegal or breach of personal info - its just Eve's metagame as practiced by its leading lights and grandest powers from top to bottom of the system.

That said, we ran SF's forum and we'd compare IP's of people applying to join back in the day - I don't think it ever came up if we could cross reference with Chatsubo - but I have an inkling Cosmo wouldn't have had a problem with that. As an organization we wanted people to be loyal to us and the cause and didn't want crappy infiltration alts stealing our stuff. Eve as a system doesn't really give many tools against corp theft and infiltration so it is left to the people running organizations to use things like IP checks to ensure one is who one purports to be when signing up.

edit-

I'm trying to remember the argument from years ago where I rolled up a disposable alt with a satirical signature to mock something Merdeneth was doing on IGS and I used my personal domain to host it (same one as the usual signature etc) there was some explosive threadnaught about it and people going on about how they'd exposed my nefarious alt use because i was image hosting from the same domain etc. Well yes, I guess they had. *shrug* but its probably on the same level as your complain about mods sharing your IP Mizhara. What we put on the net isn't really private info any more is the point. (I can't remember the exact chatsubo thread btw, but would be interested to look back and see what your opinion was on it back then!).

Anyway ta ta for now, I'm off for a weekend larping ... have fun all!

[Mizhara]

I agree. As I run a community in a game where there's practically no infiltration danger or dangers of intel leaks etc and still do exactly these things on the forums, synching TS3 and forum user identities and more simply out of old habits and "better safe than sorry" mentality I have no issues with community managers keeping their own internal security checks and logs properly under control.

I take issue with giving out this information to others. Especially actually giving out someone's IP address to non-mods. If it had just been "Yeah, we can tell these two characters are from the same user" it'd be annoying but acceptable.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Mizhara is your IP address 192.168.1.1?

[Morwen Lagann]

Well, I've got no idea who handed out the IP address if that actually happened.

But people had pegged the alt in question as you ingame well before you made a forum account for it here (in fact, as I recall, pretty much on day one), and were absolutely convinced of it. The posting behavior here sure didn't help you either. The IP addresses may have been concrete confirmation for the staff of it, but frankly none of us likely even thought to look until after you had already started posting in what was probably referred to as a 'problematic' fashion.

As far as us giving a flying fuck about your IP address or any OOG details, we simply don't, unless you are breaking rules and moderator action is being taken. This is an OOC forum, so we don't really give a damn about your characters when it comes to moderation stuff - we are going to deal with you, the player. If you want to have an alternate account on the forum, that's fine, but if you don't want anyone (mod or otherwise) to know, you're probably a lot better off trying to stay under the radar than making lots of noise. People are smart and pick up on the ways people write and say things, and compare them. It's very easy to spot people that way.

And when it comes to how the admin tools on the forum work, in the event we need to check the IP address is actually the last thing I care to look at. I just click on the link that shows it in the bottom-right corner of the post, and it spits out the names of other accounts that have been used at that IP address, which is the only piece of information the staff even need.

Edit: Also, no grudge here, tbh. Someone else brought you up, Havo got the details wrong, I corrected him. When you weren't having posts thrown into the Catacombs left and right, you were usually a pretty productive poster. It's too bad you couldn't (or wouldn't, idk) manage to do less of the former.