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[Publius Valerius]

I explain it now... what my problem is with Eterne.... so that everybody understands it:
Paradigm:
Amarr: RELIGION IS THE LEGITIMATION OF SLAVERY
See: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#Justification
and for some: RELIGION IS THE LEGITIMATION OF RACISM, both in case is religion the core.

Khanid: RACISM IS THE LEGITIMATION OF SLAVERY
See: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#Justifications

"Instead, the Kingdom tends to take a relatively simplistic view that, as Amarr, they are superior to other races and thus have the God-given right to enslave them as they see fit. Outsiders see little difference between the Kingdom and the Empire in this regard, believing that the Kingdom is merely more honest about things. " Which would mean that: in the Empire: RACISM IS THE LEGITIMATION OF SLAVERY

You see the problem?... both things dont work well together; and racisism as prime legitimacy in the context of Empire and Kingdom cleavages isnt even less logical. It is so an makro makro sprung/leap, that there isnt a micro explaination possible (aka no weber bathtube, as I mention it before).

By the way; both parts are call "Justifications" on the wiki for a reason. My suggestion would be:
Khanid: (pragmatic) RELIGION IS THE LEGITIMATION OF SLAVERY
and for some:(pragmatic) RELIGION IS THE LEGITIMATION OF RACISM, both in case is (pragmatic) religion the core.



Now too:

2.  The Amarrian people were racist before Tony G wrote books that people define as shit.

Those it make it the legitimacy for slavery? No. And thats what the wiki article is about.

3.  Again not all Kingdom Khanid are less religious or there wouldn't be an entire subfaction dedicated to people more religious than imperial Amarr.

I'm out of this convo.  Good luck with your work.

Dont start a straw man. Have I ever said something what could or would you make think in that way? So please, before I get bitter, tell me where have I made such a claim? As I said before I dont make claims which I cant prove. So again, plz dont start a straw-man-argument.

1. I'm American.  If my existence is real life  "YDIW", excuse me.  I'm listening but the way you're starting to scream I could see why someone wouldn't.  My apologies for being "American" and pointing that out.

Hard the fuck up. EVE is 4chan with spaceships. If you start crying now, better never go 0.0 

[Lyn Farel]

Well I am not sure. Even the Amarr believe that the True Amarr are superior because they are enlighted and living within God's rule. If that's not racism, I don't know what it is. But it is indeed justified by religion, and you will see that either in the Amarr Empire or in the Khanid Kingdom.

But for slightly different reasons, one more pragmatic than the other. In theory, the Amarr believe in their god given mandate because they serve God. The Khanid believe in their god given mandate because God serves them.

[Publius Valerius]

Well I am not sure. Even the Amarr believe that the True Amarr are superior because they are enlighted and living within God's rule. If that's not racism, I don't know what it is. But it is indeed justified by religion, and you will see that either in the Amarr Empire or in the Khanid Kingdom.

But for slightly different reasons, one more pragmatic than the other. In theory, the Amarr believe in their god given mandate because they serve God. The Khanid believe in their god given mandate because God serves them.

Right as you said..... and the core is the scriptures... aka religion. And tonyg made a makro-makro error by saying it is racism. My point since few pages.

[Lyn Farel]

But Amarr slavery is completely racist by our common definition no ? I don't understand your point.

If your race is deemed superior and you start enslaving people on the basis that they are inferior, then you enslave then for racist ideals, thus your slavery is racist motivated. Even if only their enlightment is the purpose, to "make them better".

[Publius Valerius]

But Amarr slavery is completely racist by our common definition no ? I don't understand your point.

The wiki article is about "Justifications". Thats why all comes down how you legitimize actions.



Your question is, if I understand you:... Is racist action out of reason x, the same as racist action out reason y? Are both not just the same, aka racist action. Or is more to it, like the if there is a higher reason (like salvation etc). Those it change ist nature? If I undestand you right.
As for now I let this question open... as the article is just about the Justification. Which means about the question where legitimacy derives. Nothing more, without any value jugdment.

[Gaven Lok ri]

Amarr intellectually is what I would call something like "pre-racist" by the modern definitions of racism. IE I think they would have a lot of trouble with understanding the concept of racism as developed in the last couple centuries (especially things like a nation-state). But I also think they would take many of the conclusions of early 20th century racism for granted, of course the True Amarr are better in all ways, ect.

They are still racist assholes by any defensible metric. Its just racism justified by religion and religious rhetoric rather than eugenics. Though, since you can't separate the scientific thought from the religious thought in Amarrian religion, the eugenics is probably there somewhere.

[Publius Valerius]

They are still racist assholes by any defensible metric. Its just racism justified by religion and religious rhetoric rather than eugenics.

My point. And the article is about Justification. So that is the my major point. I cant see why the Kingdom should derive its justification form the imperial justification. I would full heartedly disagree on some points with Arista Shahni: I cant also imagne that as he/she said, the King would invent a new "racial supremacy ideology". It is for me a to far leap from the basic explanation. Moreover, that already a justification exist (so why do the work? When there is already a justification.). The chronicle even states so:

http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/the-khanid-kingdom/
"The Khanid Kingdom in many ways resembles the Amarr Empire. "
"Other features, such as the importance of religion and slavery, are also very much alike in the two states."
"denied many of their traditional slave sources, take slaves wherever they can find them."

It is for me a to far leap from the basic explanation**. I would even go so far to say that as justification the white supremacy movement as it exist in NA wouldnt fit at all (as it works around racial cleavages. Example: White-male-voter vs. other group...etc....). By the way can someone explain to me. How can someone be so whine and call me a racist because of a harmless joke (by the way I havent know that "American" is a race now.), and in the same time be a wannabe bad ass cotton slaver? I think, someone people overreacting comes from the Idea, that I wanted to hit their white-power-lollipop out of their mouth. Which I of course havent. They only think which I say is, that the core justification isnt: Racism is the legitimation for slavery. Moreover I think as I mention above: RELIGION IS THE LEGITIMATION OF RACISM. So If someone ones wants to play a bad-ass slaver (which isnt a crying gentle flower): HE/SHE/IT CAN. The only thing I say is that his roleplay will be legitimized by religion. I still cant belive the "anti" about this idea, and the "anti" about the asian majority thingy.

They are still racist assholes by any defensible metric.

My point also. But as I said, I dont give a value jugdment, just state how stuff is legitimized.


**It is for me a to far leap from the basic explanation, as it exist in the Empire. What would be the basic explanation for the new Kingdom paradigm. Like: Why has it change form the imperal ones? What those it states? If it is darwinistic, what is measurement? Example: Praying harder is better? Or knowing more about the scriptures is better? Or White-Male is better as everyone, even towards white-females? Or more arian is better, as darian (blue eyes, dark hair)? Or it is even not social darwinistic? You people see it brings a whole new level of justification with it.