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[Andreus Ixiris]

Oh, so it's the roelplayers incorrectly portraying them? That's nice to know.

[Lyn Farel]

I couldn't tell... What are you referring to exactly ? It's possible that we could find some interesting flaws of Amarrian characters as we can find in most factions... It would be rather boring if we all played perfect characters.

[Arista Shahni]

I certainly don't play an Amarrian as "convert or you are screwed" or "convert or I am screwed", or etc.  And my character is Zealot bloodline.

There's a lot of flexibility in the religion.  Again it is when people think chat Amarr == SpacePsychoChurch protesting with big blaring signs that they get their brains mixed up in regard to what they are.

If you'd like to tell certain people they are doingitwrong you are of course welcome to do so, just not here AFAIK.

[BloodBird]

I'll answer for my own and my toon's views on this as it's kind of meaningless what I/BB thinks at this point. Replies are in the quote.

So, from some of you feddies, I'm curious:

What do you think are the reasons the Syndicate has not attempted to colonize planets? They have been specifically told they are not allowed to, and the Fed has shown in the past they are willing to enforce their decrees. It's also likely that some minor attempts has been made in the past only to be up-rooted and chased off with force by Federal forces. I imagine that minor settlements are rounded youp, (lol double key-slip :O) torched and the inhabitants sent back to the nearest Syndicate station. Alternatively if you want some more grimdark, perhaps a fleet simply comes by every once in a while, scan the planets and carpet-bomb any detected settlement, rendering settlement attempts a complete waste of lives, time and assets.

Do you think they have skirted the law and simply use proxies to colonize, or are the planets actually barren? Likely the former if anything, but DON'T FUCKING SETTLE HERE, *EVER* can be underlined in so many ways... I seriously don't think there are no Human-habitable worlds in all of Syndicate. Even if not, there are domed cities and Geo-Fronts for the barren and airless places with loads of resources.

What is the Federation Loyalist's rationale for denying The Syndicate access to specific planets to this day? The Syndicate Intaki are descendants from The Intaki Five Thousand, the majority were rebel leaders and criminals guilty of all-out hate-crimes against ethnic Gallente on the basis that they were ethnic Gallente. Their punishment was just at the time, even if it came from an unjust president. Almost instantly after setting themselves up these people began consorting with and assisting criminal elements. Today, the Syndicate is a haven of black market trading and Serpentis activity. Allowing them settlement rights would simply enable Syndicate to become a new expanse of deeply settled criminals like the Fountain Region.

What purpose could that serve? Containment and crowd control. Why has the Syndicate never seemed to challenge that, and even maintained 'good relations'? I wasn't really aware of this. Where does it say/imply that the Syndicate maintains such good relations? I was under the impression Syndi/Fed relations were rather cool or at best neutrally toned. Why do those unhappy with Federation 'oppression' and former U-Nat policy so rarely question this? Beats me. Could have been fun RP angles at some point but I can't recall having this pot stirred much.

Why are the actions of the U-Nats apologized for For my part, neither me nor my toon ever apologized for any of this, I/he took it in stride and played with it. (the bombings), but nobody speaks up for the Intaki Exiles who were similarly oppressed and exiled, despite being merely disloyal but not militant? It was worse than that, as stated above IC. The 5000 original exiles were hardly all as innocent as they seem. ILF however has made a fuzz about the Syndicate at times IIRC.

Remember, the militants became Mordu's Legion and fought in the war. The Intaki Exiles (Syndicate) did not. Indeed, the militants took their military training and went all-out traitor. The criminals however went to Syndicate and stayed there. That is why Mordu's Legion is what it is, and the Syndicate is what it is. They were simply told to get out and never come back. Why has no reparation or mediation been offered to the Syndicate by the Federation? They have made no indication whatsoever that they deserve or want it. They were exiled, and by the time the war was over, the Fed was "made better" and peace enabled dealing with other issues, Syndicate was already a criminalized shit-hole. No politician in the Fed would make career suicide suggesting the Fed reign them back in and forgive them in such a state, let alone help them in any way.

Are the Syndicate happy with the way things are, or do you think they are still being pressured into it? My bet would be a mix of both. By now the station lords (Sylphi especially) is likely quite happy to reign of their little fiefdoms, with little to no cares in the world for changing the situation to the point where re-integration with the Fed is even considered possible from a Fed standpoint. It's also likely that getting to that point demands cutting off and opposing the criminal elements that A) make use of the Syndicate's existence for both of their benefit and B) are the origin of many of the black market items that flows through the Syndicate markets on a daily basis, the other half being stuff smuggled out of the Fed. They likely have everything they feel they might need, why bother rocking the boat, risking tumbling it over, for the sake of a few bleeding hearts in their populations who want something better?

That would be about it I think. The whole Syndicate situation is a rather delicate and intricate situation by now, at least that's the impression I get from lore. Neither side is to eager for a re-union anytime soon, and the ones who seem to care the most are in a minority.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Why has the Syndicate never seemed to challenge that, and even maintained 'good relations'? I wasn't really aware of this. Where does it say/imply that the Syndicate maintains such good relations? I was under the impression Syndi/Fed relations were rather cool or at best neutrally toned.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/The_Syndicate

While nominally a wholly independent and non-aligned body, the Syndicate has nevertheless always retained strong ties to the Federation. Right now their residents are feeling immensely sympathetic to the plight of their Federal brothers - particularly fellow Intaki - even to the point of suggesting a more moderate stance towards them. The more far-sighted officials, however, have a feeling that relations will get a lot worse before they get better.

On second read, "strong ties" may not mean good relations at all.

[BloodBird]

No it does not. That's the part that had me confused, because I've read that part you linked as well and hit a different conclusion. Anyhow, with that misunderstanding out of the way, I think we are both on the same page. Carry on!

[orange]

"pshhh. They're just rocks. We don't need them."

This!

Within the modern space settlement movement there is actually a debate over whether there is any real usefulness in establishing colonies on large bodies like Mars or Luna.  Fundamentally, a civilization capable of establishing colonies on barren worlds, to include terraforming them, can also create its own worlds in free-space, in optimal orbits around parent stars, mining smaller (lower gravity) planetoids and moons for the building blocks of civilization.

The benefit of terraforming a world rest not in gaining access to the physical wealth of that world (mining for high-end metals on places like Earth, Luna, or Mars is hard and then you have to lift it out of the gravity well if you plan to export it), but in creating a world in which life, presumably human life, can survive without technological aid.  A world on which all but the most horrible of disasters does not kill off the entire population (see asteroid impact).

People keep forgetting that this is the Intaki Syndicate. The reaction of a great many Intaki to a problem is to wait a lifetime or three and see if it goes away. I've always found it an interesting contrast: the Amarrians are terribly impatient and desperate because their religion convinces them if they don't get the Great Work done in their lifetime, they might go to Hell. The Intaki religion makes them incredibly, inconceivably patient because they have the entire span of humanity's existence to get their own Great Work done. If the Syndicate has a plan for the cluster (and let's face it - everyone has a plan for the cluster), they're in no hurry. Their plans might outlive their current body, but that's fine. There's new ones being made every day, and their soul is eternal.

They're laid-back, intelligent, quiet, and deeply, deeply patient. Nothing lasts forever, but some things last a very long time.

I really like the idea of a group of Intaki in Syndicate having a plan.

[Katrina Oniseki]

UPDATE

New questions!

While the planets are not officially settled by the Syndicate, and probably don't have bustling megacities and capitol buildings... I can't imagine that they are barren of any settlers. I've always figured that smaller 'independant' towns are trying to eke out a living on the planets without the help of a central government. While not technically illegal, since they are independent, they are nonetheless some pretty rough and tumble places.

I'm imagining a parallel to the Wild West here, where we've got very insular localities that have managed to survive for many years on their own without any support by major Empires. The Federation doesn't bother them, the Syndicate doesn't help them. As such, they vary wildly in terms of prosperity. Dustbowl towns on Barren planets may suffer from lack of education, famine, poverty, disease, or other issues. More prosperous independent trade hubs on a comfortable temperate planet may actually have grown to be respectable 'cities' in their own right. In all cases, the settlers would probably survive by their own resourcefulness and willingness to to the extra mile.

How well would these people respond to an outside capsuleer force trying to interfere? How well would they respond to the crackdown on probable Serpentis influence; trying to build schools, hospitals, factories, roads, rails, and farms? Would some reject it and fight back? Would others welcome them with open arms?

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[Lyn Farel]

Nice pics. I think you already more or less answer yourself to your questions... But they all are valid, even their different answers make sense. We can find plenty interesting justifications for each.

While it's always interesting to discuss about what could be happening here and there (yay, world building \o/), your analogy with the far west is a nice one, though it's already rather oriented and subjective. I personally like it, and since it's a big cluster I wouldnt doubt that there are small colonies like that (unless CCP suddenly says nope, as usual with world building of whole pieces of void PF). But I wouldnt go further and state that it has to be the case everywhere in Syndicate. Take one or two colonies like that and make them stand out.

[BloodBird]

I really wish PF would be more clear on this.

Right now, it says nothing about HOW the Fed involves itself in Syndicate, so none us know if they ignore non-Syndicate settlements, help them with active trade or whatever, make settlements of their OWN, or for all we know zealously enforce the "don't settle" part of "don't settle" with active patrols that erase any settlement from the map, regardless of who they are.

And we still don't know the specifics of the modern enforcement of such a decree either, so for all we know CCP shoves out a piece of PF in a month saying they forgave the Syndicate decades ago due to X.... :S

[Katrina Oniseki]

Agreed on all counts. I think it would indeed be better to name specific colonies and such, rather than painting the entire region with a broad stroke.

[Korsavius]

I really wish PF would be more clear on this.

Right now, it says nothing about HOW the Fed involves itself in Syndicate, so none us know if they ignore non-Syndicate settlements, help them with active trade or whatever, make settlements of their OWN, or for all we know zealously enforce the "don't settle" part of "don't settle" with active patrols that erase any settlement from the map, regardless of who they are.

And we still don't know the specifics of the modern enforcement of such a decree either, so for all we know CCP shoves out a piece of PF in a month saying they forgave the Syndicate decades ago due to X.... :S

So much this. I really wish CCP would at least gives some details about the planets of Syndicate and how they relate to the Syndicate and Federation governments. I've always fancied the idea of establishing X, Y, and Z tradehubs in the name of promoting the Ishukone ideals of free and open trade, but hesitate due to the very blurry backstory of the Syndicate planets. QQ

[GoGo Yubari]

We don't know, as has been stated, but I'm inclined to say that there is no settlement at all simply to differentiate it from other 0.0 areas and to lean on what little we do know. If we suddenly assume minor, unofficial settlements, how is this conceptually different from any other 0.0 area? I don't think it adds anything. That said, I'm pretty sure that it has happened somewhere, sometime and will happen again. Rules are made to be broken. So, I wouldn't go crazy if i saw someone use this as a plot device in a story or something.

All speculation and opinion, of course.