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[Lyn Farel]

I might be interested.

[Saede Riordan]

how would people feel about ALXVP putting together our own conference, to take the place of the current Seycon? Since Ollie and N'maro are too busy irl to manage it right now.

[Katrina Oniseki]

how would people feel about ALXVP putting together our own conference, to take the place of the current Seycon? Since Ollie and N'maro are too busy irl to manage it right now.

OOC, my suggestion is to not use ALXVP to do that. I'll explain why below.

Synenose Accord is generally recognized to be an above-the-table lawful organization. ALXVP has shown itself to be less than such, from my viewpoint. For various IC reasons, mind you. I may be misjudging the opinions of other characters here, but you folks have typically not stayed on the straight and narrow. ALXVP is in many ways the polar opposite of Synenose, openly supporting Nation and disparaging the Big4.

I think it's perfectly fine for ALXVP to launch their own event, HOWEVER:

I think many would be strongly opposed IC to ALXVP's event billing itself as the 'successor' or 'replacement' to Seyllin Conference. It could be seen as an insult, as a spit in the face. I wouldn't be surprised if the event was ridiculed, snubbed, or outright attacked by some of the regulars.

All that doesn't even include the OOC reactions some might have. We've already seen one catacombed response to your offer, and you can bet there will be more.

If creating controversy and drama is what you want, sure, go ahead and try. I think more groups need to host more events, and I think ALXVP should host more events too. I do not think they/you should try to fill those particular shoes though. Find your own pair and stick with them.

TL;DR

No. Do your own event. Don't try to capitalize on someone else's events using a corp that is directly opposed to the original hosts.

EDIT:

You once described that you wanted ALXVP to be "a more edgy and hip version of Star Fraction". I think tgat accurately describes why many characters would not trust/want to go to a science conference held by ALXVP.

[Saede Riordan]

So in your opinion Kat, should we stay away from science conventions altogether to avoid stepping on SeyCon's toes, or just set it up independently and not bill it as the spiritual successor to Seyllin?

[Katrina Oniseki]

So in your opinion Kat, should we stay away from science conventions altogether to avoid stepping on SeyCon's toes, or just set it up independently and not bill it as the spiritual successor to Seyllin?

I'm saying do your own thing.

Set it up independently, and try to find some flavor of science that isn't also stepping on their toes. I think ALXVP would be an excellent corp to host a conference on transhumanism and post-human technologies. This would be completely different from SeyCon and would be right up your alley to boot. Think about it. Isn't that sort of stuff exactly what ALXVP is all about? The general topic of making humans 'better' than what they are right now? Why not host a grand conference showcasing all sorts of things?


Here's some stuff!

Bodymodding
Modding Showcase: Upgrades for your Body!
~ Hidden tools or weapons
~ Prosthetic replacements
~ Built in personal electronics, like a datapad on the back of your wrist
~ Cybernetic implants
~ Nanite and holographic tattoos
~ Combat mods
~ Sexual mods
~ Vanity mods (plastic surgery)
~ Survival/Durability mods
~ and more!

Boddymodding Drawbacks:
~ If you're addicted to bodymodding, where can you get help?
~ Bodymodding Anonymous' 12-Step-Program: Bringing you closer to Amarrian God, and away from sinful modding!
~ Mod removal and reversal
~ Countering common misconceptions about Modders and mods!
~ Legal fund for those discriminated against illegally for being Modders

Clones
Clone Showcasing: Buy finished clones, without needing to mod them!
~ Furry/Alien avatars
~ Quadripedal or otherwise multi-limbed
~ Independant clones for both 'siamese twins'
~ DUST clone without the cranial implants
~ Blank clones for human experimentation
~ and more!

Biomass Politics:
~ How are clones made?
~ What are they made from?
~ Are the industry practices for producing clones inhumane or otherwise exploitative?
~ Do the empty clones feel pain and emotion while they are being grown?
~ Are safe and non-toxic materials being used in the production of clones?
~ Are the storage and maintenance practices of the cloning industry adequate?

Clone Rights Politics:
~ Should clones share the same legal protections as their originals?
~ What groups and individuals threaten the advancement of cloning the most?
~ Should clones be made available to the poor and/or sickly as a matter of principle?
~ Political issues of Capsuleers vs. Greater Cluster
~ Political issues of DUSTers vs. Greater Cluster

Infomorphs
Definitions:
~ Capsuleers
~ DUST mercs
~ Sleepers
~ ???

Theology:
~ Do Infomorphs join their God/Spirits/Ancestors/etc when they die?
~ Are they Angels or Demons?
~ Are they still human?
~ Do they have a 'soul' at all?

Political Considerations:
~ Are they a blessing to humanity?
~ Are they a threat to humanity?
~ What dangers or possibilities now exist that didn't ten years ago?
~ What is CONCORD's real goal? Are they trying to 'keep us down' or lift us up?
~ What is Nation's real goal? Are they trying to exterminate us, or are they really actually trying to help us?
~ Where are the Jove, our estranged parents? What was the purpose of this gift to us, and why would they not follow up?
~ What about those rumors of a higher power? An evil cousin to the Jove? The Enehheduani or whatever?
~ Are the sleepers dead/gone, or are they still alive and we've been tearing up their world?

Trans/Post-Humanism

~ Why is transhumanism the answer to our problems?
~ What dangers might lay ahead if we leave our current humanity behind?
~ What lessons do the Jove have to teach us about transhumanism?
~ What lessons do the other ancient races have to teach us? (Sleepers, Yan Jung, Talocan, Tahkmal)
~ What major advancements in the field have been made recently?
~ What major hurdles do we still have to overcome before we can move forward?
~ What is our end goal for transhumanism, and do we really want it?


As you can see, Saede, there is so much possibility just in your RP niche alone that you could host several YEARS worth of events just to cover some of the ideas listed here in sufficient detail. There isn't any reason why you should want to host anything like SeyCon, when you have a veritable gold mine of material to pick from already.

After typing all this, I'd like to point out I really hope you're up to the task - because even Kat might have to attend something as deliciously sci-fi as this.

[Saede Riordan]

10/10, would attend

[Esna Pitoojee]

I was writing a version of this earlier, but I think Kat got most of it before I did: ALXVP has created its own niche, but in doing so has managed to create some ugly history with other people as well. A "Seylinn-ish" conference sponsored by ALXVP would not be viewed by all as neutral, nor in a particularly good light.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Was SeyCon ever viewed as neutral, though?

[Arista Shahni]

The moral of the story is keep the OOC lulz out of people's views, so they don't translate it as "an IC reflection of OOC trolling".  I know you guys are pretty cool and very well coul dhave been joking, and it is hard to tell the amount of actual work ppl put into stuff, but still.  It's easy to hurt people's feels.  Specially this past year with all the drama, the RP community is highly sensitive, and for damned good reason.  We've been stepped on by not only eachother, but CCP staff.

[Louella Dougans]

a lot of sciencey things, in the PF, have appeared to be based on scientific principles that are not always identical to things that exist in Real Life. Some things also have pseudoscientific names, as a joke.

things like:
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=3771 Ectoplasm
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=3926 Augmented stem cells
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=21567 Powdered Cubensis

Also, a lot of the PF seems to show that state-of-the-art cybernetic prostheses are at the mechanical level, i.e. anyone with cybernetic enhancements is visibly such. More like Deus Ex Human Revolution than Deus Ex.
There are some things in PF which are not visible, such as Blood Raiders having bio-engineered spy people, and so on, but that's an entirely different thing.
Of course, there's that "thanatos" super special secret agent in Templar One, again, there's some odd stuff that's not necessarily compatible with what is known in RL scientific literature.

So... any player-based science things have to take into account that really, scientific laws in the EVE universe aren't quite the same as in RL. And also, player based science things have to respect and account for the things written in the PF. Things like... that bit about how cybernetic enhancement, there's no middle ground, use as much as possible, or as little as possible. Can't take a scientific paper, change names of authors, and insert things into the EVE universe, it just doesn't work that way.

Also, player stuff, has to be original, and also, modest in its claims. Like, if you're going to clone things en masse, then there's a couple of technologies that exist - Blood Raider, Sansha's Nation, Jovian things. All of which operate differently. If you claim to have an original fourth method, then that's a pretty big claim - means that your science things rival or exceed the capabilities of some of the major entities in New Eden. Got to be able to back that up pretty convincingly. Or instead, use tech belonging to 2 of those mentioned (i.e. not the Jovians). Which would be a thing in itself - that you are on good enough terms for research sharing with those powers, or that you are capable of understanding and implementing the theories using captured partial equipment. Again, those are big claims.

[Saede Riordan]

Also, player stuff, has to be original, and also, modest in its claims. Like, if you're going to clone things en masse, then there's a couple of technologies that exist - Blood Raider, Sansha's Nation, Jovian things. All of which operate differently. If you claim to have an original fourth method, then that's a pretty big claim - means that your science things rival or exceed the capabilities of some of the major entities in New Eden. Got to be able to back that up pretty convincingly. Or instead, use tech belonging to 2 of those mentioned (i.e. not the Jovians). Which would be a thing in itself - that you are on good enough terms for research sharing with those powers, or that you are capable of understanding and implementing the theories using captured partial equipment. Again, those are big claims.

I see this come down largely to a matter of perspective and priorities then outright abilities. We see that all the factions in EVE have an amazing level of technology, there are just things that they don't apply for financial/cultural/political reasons.

To use your cloning en masse example, its indicated in the (albeit questionably PF) stuff about softcloning that any sufficently rich baseliner could have a clone, and that cloning technology isn't something only capsuleers have access to. So its not a technological/engineering issues, its a funding issue, one that capsuleers could hypothetically solve, being the insanely rich moguls that we are.

Another example is things like radio telescopes and the like, which clearly exist both ingame and in real life using pretty simple scientific principles. I had a long discussion IC and OOCly with Stitcher and some other corpmates about things like, we should be able to use telescopes and the like to find wormhole space and plot its shape, but we can't because the game mechanics prevent it. This is technology that isn't super advanced, can be found in numerous complexes in space, and clearly exists and would likely be easily affordable by our characters. But because the mechanics aren't in place ingame, any discoveries we made would basically have to be handwaved out of thin air unless CCP actually gave us information. This is where I see a lot of the limits of science RP really hit, and why it disappoints me greatly that Arek Jaalan wasn't continued. Because there are things our characters could do in-universe that we as players just can't do without CCP. This is where I feel the greatest restrictions lie for us, and part of me wants to just say 'well just make it up' but I know that wouldn't necessarily produce good results, or results that would correlate with the fiction, and its something CCP could easily countermand at any time. On some level I feel like CCP wants capsuleers to just be violent murderboat captains and leave all the science to NPCs. Am dissapoint.

[Louella Dougans]

wormhole shape is arbitrary, and doesn't match up with anything ingame. It's purely game mechanics.

All the J-123456 numbers are from one of the RL astronomic catalogues. CCP said this. Something about the J-123456 number being the only identifiable quasar visible from that wormhole system or something like that. Which means class 6 space isn't at the centre, with lower classes arranged in a ring, as the systems appear on eve maps. It's all arbitrary.

Which put the kibosh on the Arekjalann project about mapping the wormholes. Ingame numbers and observations didn't matter. I don't even know if the quasars appear ingame. Probably not.



There was another cheap cloning tech that I forgot, DUST. Shows how well integrated DUST is with the rest of EVE, hurp. Anyway, DUST clones, are mass produced generic clones, whose life expectancy simply does not matter. Degenerations within a year or so are most definitely not an issue for a DUST clone.
Capsuleer clones are individually made, to the customers specifications, it doesn't look like a process that scales at all well.
It's the thing, whereby, to allow 1 cloned individual to operate, requires a support staff and a lot of material backup. Having an entire civilisation of clone-possessing individuals, begins to look like a substantial proportion of the population has to be employed in the cloning industry, just to maintain the civilisation, leaving fewer people to do other things.
Maybe that's why the Takmahl civilisation died out, who knows. Because just how does a clone-using civilisation die out? vOv

[Nmaro Makari]

Ok so this thread took off under my nose.

Right, just in brief until I get a little more time.

While there's no mechanic or any sort of rule backing us up, SYNE does like to think that the institution, not the content, of SeyCon is its intellectual property, a feeling that I think it's fair to say isn't entirely undeserved given the effort put in by its organisers at the front and behind the scenes.

That being said, I had hoped when advertising the event on backstage that we would have more people externally from outside the corp answering the call for additional organisers, because we wanted people from outside the corp to feel invested in the project but also it overcomes the issue of personnel shortages. In our view, it would have made the conference far more permanent and appeal to more people.

In short we wanted to pluralize the conference.

Thus this thread does put me in a difficult position because while we still do want to run the conference given that our operational capacity has freed up, I don't think it's far from the truth that holding both SeyCon and another one from a different group would probably benefit neither and create undue animosity.

We still want to hold SeyCon we had planned to when we were all a little more available, we would be disappointed if we could't this season, but not upset, and we certainly do not want to create animosity or ill will by adopting an "OURS! DO NOT TOUCH" policy.

Thus, we would like to come to an arrangement with you folks that have expressed such an interest so far. We would like to be involved, we would still like it to be under the SeyCon banner, and we would most certainly like to have those of you who who have been throwing around idea balls so far to be leading figures of its planning, preparation and execution.

If such an arrangement is not amicable, we understand, we will accept your judgement and part amicably *tips hat* with no ill will and try again next year.

Responding here is fine, but also by mail if you wish to talk privately.

[Saede Riordan]

I'm definitely interested and willing to be involved.

[Myyona]

wormhole shape is arbitrary, and doesn't match up with anything ingame. It's purely game mechanics.

All the J-123456 numbers are from one of the RL astronomic catalogues. CCP said this. Something about the J-123456 number being the only identifiable quasar visible from that wormhole system or something like that. Which means class 6 space isn't at the centre, with lower classes arranged in a ring, as the systems appear on eve maps. It's all arbitrary.

Which put the kibosh on the Arekjalann project about mapping the wormholes. Ingame numbers and observations didn't matter. I don't even know if the quasars appear ingame. Probably not.

Yes. I was surprised when Torfi pulled that one out.

It is seemingly important, considering the speed in which CCP removed this information from the Starbase towers. On the other hand, it has been communicated very poorly out to the players, where most still believe that the game mechanical location match the lore.

A good example of IC knowledge being opposite of the OOC one.

To emphasize: W-systems are considered lore wise to be spread all over the starcluster/galaxy/universe, not in some region in the "south-east" corner of the map.