Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Dear Mod-Team

Something I've encountered recently is the moderation of posts and topics according to the inclusion of certain Eve memes. I'm not saying that there were no content related reasons for moderating those posts, but it's becoming clear that the use of certain memes as shortcuts to express concerns or opinions is being attacked by the moderator team and I wondered what the thinking was behind this?

In case this isn't deliberate policy, and in the interests of disclosure, I should mention that I was recently modded for using the term 'unique snowflake' whilst I see Havojec theatening to permaban the next person to use the term 'HTFU'. Perhaps there are other examples?

Could the Mod-Team comment on whether such a policy does, indeed, exist and if so which terms of expression are on the list?

[Havohej]

First, snowflakes.

There is a history of the phrase "beautiful and unique snowflake" being used to disparage players, and roleplayers in particular, for 'going against the grain' of generally accepted archetypes/tropes/what-have-you.

RPer A: I wanna play the only Amarrian to not like slavery.
RPer B: Well aren't you just a beautiful and unique snowflake.
RPer A:   I'm only trying to have a little fun, it's not hurting anyone.
RPer B: You're doing it wrong.

Note also that we do not approve of YDIW arguments on this board (my own use of the 'doing it wrong' phrase being quite tongue-in-cheek in the discussion of whether or not having friends in EVE is 'doing it wrong' - of course we're all going to have friends in EVE, it's a Massively Multiplayer Online game).

So, yeah, 9 out of 10 times, a snowflake comment is going to get modded.  When I read your snowflake post, the first feel I got from it was negative, so I *snip*'d it.

Second, HTFU.

This forum was created for several reasons.  One of those reasons was that the EVE RP Community needed (we felt, and still feel) a venue where it could discuss the game and RP within the game in an OOC manner without having to HTFU in order to post or participate in discussions in said venue.  EVE is a hard enough game for our characters without having to be real-life ice men/women in order to talk to other players.  Typically, the use of HTFU is an ad hominem attack employed when all other arguments seem to be failing, or when one simply has no more valid opinion to offer.

Poster A:  I don't like this, because whyever.
Poster B:  Yeah, well, you're a pussy and you need to HTFU.

Even if Poster B doesn't say "you're a pussy", it's implied just by the use of HTFU.  Suddenly, Poster A feels much less welcome and comfortable in this forum community and we will not tolerate that.

I, especially, have a bug up my ass about the use of HTFU on this board (despite the fact that I have and do use it in other, more appropriate places).  And since I'm back out of jail, and since it's made clear that it's unacceptable in the Rules and FAQ, and since apparently folks have become aware that I made that warning in the Catacombed post, yes.

If I see you tell someone to HTFU and you have been previously moderated or warned - formally or informally as Mr. Smuggles had been, I will P-Ban you.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Thanks for the clarification. I suppose encouraging people not to use phrases like 'snowflake' and 'HTFU' forces them to think harder about what they're trying to say as they word it differently.

Again. Not saying there weren't content-related reasons for moderation. In my own case I felt ambivalent enough about the tone of the post that I tracked down the other party ingame to talk about it well before it was moderated.

[Havohej]

You're welcome

I appreciate your understanding and not taking it personally that your own post was modded.

[lallara zhuul]

Would extending this to all internet/EVE memes be appropriate as well?

Mainly for the aforementioned reason of wording things differently and thinking harder about the content of your post.

[Makkal]

I'm going to guess that the problem isn't that it's a meme, but that it's a shorthand for something rather negative.

If I respond to a post with 'cool story, bro' or 'tl;dr,' I am using a meme to belittle or criticize another poster. If I respond with '+1,' 'that was over 9,000,' or '10/10 would bang again,' it's a positive, friendly reaction, even if I didn't put much thought or time into the post.   

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Well, yeah. Nobody ever complained because a compliment wasn't sufficiently defined, eh?

Since criticism hurts feelings I suppose it needs to be carefully constructed, so that the specifics of what the criticiser is talking about are given proper boundaries, otherwise the person being criticised is going to interpret it as a general attack.

[Havohej]

Bingo.  As well as some third party observers.

Like mods.

[BloodBird]

First, snowflakes.

*SNIP*

If I see you tell someone to HTFU and you have been previously moderated or warned - formally or informally as Mr. Smuggles had been, I will P-Ban you.

So in short, if anyone has previously been slapped for using 'HTFU' (I am assuming here you reffer to being modded for the use of this specific meme not having ever been modded before for anything) in any way happen to do so again, even by accident or a casual gesture out of habit or whatever, if anyone, ANYONE who has previously been modded for this EVER forget, (and don't remember and instantly run off to edit that part of their post out) they will be permanently banned by you because you PERSONALLY have beef with the meme?

How is that even remotely fair? Are we to be at the mercy of the whims of individual mod's and their pet peeves now? I don't use the meme myself but others do. After being modded once all it takes is one slip, perhaps even years later when they forgot about it, even if for only 5 minutes, and they are out for good?


*EDIT* For some reason I find it needed to add this. I've read your post 4 times over by now and I still stand by the above post's conclusion, even if I have a nagging suspicion that I've got it very wrong. At this point I *have* been awake for nearly 40 hours straight so I can't exclude the option that I simply read it wrong or whatever, but there it is. I'll be back to read any clarification or re-read the original post again when I (hopefully) have got some sleep.

[Lyn Farel]

How can someone "slip" again when he perfectly knows that meme is moderated, since he has been warned or modded before for the exact same thing ?

Sometimes I don't understand. Do people learn of their mistakes ?

[Desiderya]

How can someone "slip" again when he perfectly knows that meme is moderated, since he has been warned or modded before for the exact same thing ?

Sometimes I don't understand. Do people learn of their mistakes ?

The proper response for being modded for using HTFU after this would be to HTFU. 

[Morwen Lagann]

How can someone "slip" again when he perfectly knows that meme is moderated, since he has been warned or modded before for the exact same thing ?

Sometimes I don't understand. Do people learn of their mistakes ?

No, people very often do not. That's why we use an escalating series of consequences for repeat offenders.

Without naming names, I can tell you that most people who are moderated more than once or twice are usually being moderated for the same things over and over again.

The rules are there for you, the poster, to self-moderate before hitting post. The moderators are not supposed to be a maid service. Just because we will clean up after you take an explosive shit all over the forums does not mean that we should have to when you are perfectly capable of aiming into the metaphorical toilet.

The occasional poster with the "I'm going to be moderated for this, but I'm going to post it anyway" attitude is also particularly aggravating. If someone is posting with this attitude, they are doing it horrifically wrong, and they will likely find themselves taking forced breaks from posting in short order.

[Katrina Oniseki]

... take an explosive shit all over the forums ...

[Havohej]

I was going to say much of what Morlag said, but he said it, so... yeah.

In response to Bloodbird's direct question: No, you didn't read it wrong.

Yes, I will permaban repeat offenders of the use of HTFU on this board.

In one sense, perhaps this is just me with a super-specific pet peeve.  In another sense, it is one of the specific reasons this board was created: the fact that anyone who responded negatively to anything a certain clique said or did on the old forum was told to HTFU or some derivitive thereof.

We will not have it on Backstage.  All are welcome to post their opinions here and must be able to do so without having to deal with shitposters telling them how wrong they are and how they need to HTFU or quit Eve or whatever other stupid shit some asswipe wants to spew out of their Internet-Anonymity protected mouths.

Seeing as how this was nearly a month ago and there's been no post in the Moderators' Office to the effect of "No, Havo, that's too much D:" I'm going forward with the assumption that I've got full support of my co-admin, Silver, and the rest of the Moderation Team on this issue.

[Desiderya]

To be fair Havohej, I agree entirely with the premise of this board and that we neither need a space for poo-flinging nor for shittalking. However, seeing as this topic references what I got moderated for, I feel quite turned off by being referred to as 'Shitposter' and other assorted niceties simply for using these four letters along constructive suggestions. No worries, I'll use more and fancier words for the same information next time.