Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Ollie]

Firstly some disclaimers. This is an admittedly trivial topic**, but as it has to do with tools I use commonly I've got a vested interest in making sure I'm doinitrite. I apologise if it comes across as the opposite of this - ie, a 'urdoinitwrong' post. That's not my intention but if it's deemed so by mods, well send it to the catacombs I guess.

Also, while I've posted a link below I'm not actually intending to be critical of its content. As the title says, I'm seeking clarification.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3250026#post3250026

The question's simple: Are killboard stats IC or OOC information?

I've always regarded them as the former - am I wrong in this way?

My reasons for regarding them as IC information is that they stem from in-game killmails.

I can understand why they might also be OOC, however - the process of getting them from the in-game killmail reporting to a third-party website could be regarded either way.

IGS specifically forbids posting killmail links to its forums - the reasons for this aren't clear to me however. I'm not sure whether it was intended to limit trolling, whether it has an IC basis or whether there are other considerations I'm unaware of.

Is there any sort of consensus on this?


** I may be overthinking this

[Makkal]

Killboards are IC.

And... it's Leo.

Killmail links aren't permitted on any part of the EVE forums. The same as chats or eve-mails. It has nothing to do with it being IC or OOC.

[Esna Pitoojee]

This has been an issue before.

Yes, killboards are IC in my opinion.

[Silas Vitalia]

One of the reasons posting kill links in IGS is not kosher is due to the multi-page threadnaughts that result instantaneously from each side trying to spin the kill report (you blobbed! It doesn't show your allies! Blah blah blah).  It's 100% awful, 100% of the time, from all sides.


I treat all killmails IC because they can be independently verified.  Call it CONCORD, call it spais, whatever, they are undeniable.  If they aren't IC it gets into very 'he said she said' territory when that faction battleship you lost to a noob frigate mail gets thrown in your face and you say 'nu-uh totally didn't happen they are lying.' 

It's one of the very few things in EVE we have as a 100% verifiable metric of performance, if an incomplete story of it.

[Morwen Lagann]

Killmails are IC information, and if they are posted on a public killboard, they are public IC information.

End of story. You can call it OOC info all you want, but I will use it against you regardless.

If you don't want your kill reports to be public IC information, force your pilots to disable APIs on public killboards, and lock your own. And then pray that whoever you kill doesn't have their own API key feeding to a public killboard.

[Saede Riordan]

Killmails are IC information, and if they are posted on a public killboard, they are public IC information.

End of story. You can call it OOC info all you want, but I will use it against you regardless.

If you don't want your kill reports to be public IC information, force your pilots to disable APIs on public killboards, and lock your own. And then pray that whoever you kill doesn't have their own API key feeding to a public killboard.

This essentially. Your IC information security is only as good as your OOC information security.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Two players (pilots) get the combat records at the end of it. Even if Stillwater's records are somehow not public, their victims' records are.

[Vikarion]

I sure hope they're IC, because I've been using some of I-RED's pilots kill-mail "padding" to show that they were shooting at Caldari ships in Luminaire during the CP event. 

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Kill mails, publically posted, or that you get ahold of in other means, are absolutely IC.  The only thing I can reasonably consider NOT to be IC is, say, a blog post where someone has specifically placed an OOC disclaimer on it.  Literally every piece of information generated by the game itself is fair game.

[Ciarente]

While there are 'grey areas' - that generally lead to multipage threadnaughts here when they come up - I have never before now heard anyone suggest that killmails are one of them.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I sure hope they're IC, because I've been using some of I-RED's pilots kill-mail "padding" to show that they were shooting at Caldari ships in Luminaire during the CP event. 

Hey that was a really big ship!

"Your group of Neutron Blaster Cannon II miss Federation Navy Moros completely..... and hits the ship behind it by accident for wrecking damage."

>_>

[Silas Vitalia]

While there are 'grey areas' - that generally lead to multipage threadnaughts here when they come up - I have never before now heard anyone suggest that killmails are one of them.

Not here, on the IGS. 

Many years of many people throwing walls of stat arguments at each other. It was awful.

[Ciarente]

Sorry I was unclear - I meant that there are 'grey areas' where some people consider things to be IC, and other consider those same things to be OOC, and attempts to reach consensus on them in debates on this forum have led to many page threadnaughts. However, this is the first time I have ever seen it suggested that killmails are anything other than 100%, rolled-gold, absolutely IC.

[Karmilla Strife]

I use public killboards ICly. If both parties (victim and victor) for some reason had private killboards, and the information wasn't readily available, then I think there would be a reason to assume the information is semi-private IC. 

[Merdaneth]

Killboards are IC information.

Their veracity is OOC information. I am of the opinion that the unhackability' of API keys is OOC information.