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[Mithfindel]

I'm a native Finnish speaker, with near to no knowledge of Japanese (only individual words). And yes, I agree on your points mostly - I didn't count, but a lot of words were taken only from one language with some individual sounds added or removed. I do believe I've read some old posts where the OOC origins of a few words were explained, so I am rather familiar with how they are formed.

For the "not connecting" part, I'll pick an example from my high school French lessons - one of the sentences in an essay had completely baffled the teacher, as it talked about the object of the sentence being "root" something. Well, the Finnish word for "exactly" (juuri sopiva, "exactly fitting") happens to be a homonyme of the word for "root" (puun juuri, "root of a tree"), and as they were not sufficiently explained in the dictionary, the writer of the essay had picked the wrong one. These cases didn't feel very numerous, though. (Again, didn't count.) Some of the connections to similar things might be partially imagined, as well - the human mind is very apt at seeing connections where none do really exist. There were a few very poetic ones, with a possible "etymology" to somewhat archaic words.

[Arvo Katsuya]

I realized something... going back to what I pointed out. I couldn't find a word for 'forgive'.

There's the commonly used expession, 'Never forgive, never forget'. We need to be able to express this in Caldari language.

"_____ dai, lai dai."

[Ken]

utuusi v. to forgive (root: utuus "concede, relent"; the preferred, modern term)

rukkui v. to forgive (root: rukku "forgive, absolve"; a somewhat outdated expression in daily conversation, but one that imparts a deeper, more complete meaning than merely accepting a fault/error and moving on)

rukkuone n. pardon, absolution (root: rukku "forgive, absolve")

Thus, rukkui dai, lai dai.

[Mithfindel]

As a note: Any words left from the "old world" would likely be mutated unrecognizable. As such, using "real world" languages as a background for any new invented languages should only consider the "look and feel" of a language, most importantly phonology, flow and possibly basic grammar (with hopefully the end result being internally consistent and compatible with the world it is set into). The following list of words that somewhat closely match to the real-world equivalents is provided just in case someone is interested.

The word meanings are as per memory, not from a dictionary.

From the list of sample roots:
anik- (panic): self-explaining
huv- (enjoy): huvi "fun, merriment"
iltak- (return): close to ilta "evening", though the connection is a bit loose (iltakutsu would be "last call" (mil.)
jaom- (divide, separate): jako "divide", jakaa "to divide"
kafuru- (barren): karu "harsh, barren"
kakkush- (luxury, delight): kakku "cake"
kayrt- (cycle, repeat): kierto "cycle", kiertää "to circle, to go around"
kektim- (study, research): keksiä "to invent" (originally from keksi, a long stick used in for example log driving and timber rafting - trying to catch something would be "keksiä")
kienj- (forbidden, taboo): kielto "ban, restriction", kieltää "to forbid"
kula- (come): tulla "to come"
kunniot- (respect, deference): kunnioittaa "to respect" (from kunnia "honour")
muut- (change): muuttua "to change (itself)", muuttaa "to change (something), to move residence"
myd- (sell): myydä "to sell", myynti "sales"
nahu- (see, observe): nähdä "to see"
nug- (play): See the explanation for Nugoeihuvi corporation name
onek- (luck, serendipity): onni "luck", onnekas "lucky"
osk- (buy): ostaa "to buy"
pik- (length, long): pitkä "long"
rakennut- (build, construct): rakentaa "to build" via rakennuttaa "to have built"
rask- (heavy, bulky): raskas "heavy"
saal- (permit, allow): sallia "to permit" - related sallimus "divine providence"
siir- (depart, go away): siirtää "to move something"
stama- (anchor, moor): satama "harbour, haven"
suf- (deep, dive): sukeltaa "to dive"
susk- (belief, faith): usko "faith", uskomus "belief", uskonto "religion"
tamas- (dance): um, just dance? (tanssi)
tanset- (fight): tanssia (to dance)
teknik- (advance, develop): tekniikka "technology" (as a note, you can "make science" in Finnish, but you can't "make technology" - the concept might be related, though)
tietosh- (know): tietää "to know", tieto "knowledge, information, data", tiede "science"
ud- (new, fresh): uusi "new", uudistaa "renew", uudis- "new-" (uudisraivaaja "frontiersman", uudisrakennus "new building/construction")
use- (many, much): usea "many, multiple"
valk- (bright, ligth): valkeus (archaic) "brightness", valkea/valkoinen "white"
vekiin- (oblige, require): possibly connected to velka "debt"

Edit: to be continued

[Mithfindel]

(Reserved)

[Ken]

Oh, Mithfindel.  Nothing better to do during extended downtime? 

Since I don't speak Finnish, I do appreciate your perspective on the words.  I'd say you shouldn't look too deeply into it as I intended no hidden meanings and readily admit most of the words are a mash-up of Finnish and Japanese terms.  Imparting the "look and feel", as you say, of the real world languages has been my intent all along. 

Interestingly, huvi is a Caldari word straight from PF.

[Vieve]

Oh, Mithfindel.  Nothing better to do during extended downtime? 

Since I don't speak Finnish, I do appreciate your perspective on the words.  I'd say you shouldn't look too deeply into it as I intended no hidden meanings and readily admit most of the words are a mash-up of Finnish and Japanese terms.

But feel free to look for the hidden meanings in the words I contributed, because there may be some.

e.g.  tamas- (to dance)

I initially parsed tanssi and odori(Japanese for "dance") comme ça:

Step One:
ta-ns+si = tasi
od+or-i = odor

Step Two:
ta-o+d-s+i-o+r = tadir

Step Three:
"Bleah, that looks like freaking Sindarian."

Step Four:
"Taadir and Tadiir don't look much better."

Step Five:
"Why the hell did you just jump into Tama?"

Step Six:
BSOOP¹.

Step Seven:
"Crap, I'm still in Tama.  I can't believe nobody noticed me sitting here IN THIS ITERON V on the Nourv gate.  Why don't I get the hell out of Tama before someone does?"

Step Eight:
Look up 'Tama' in Wikipedia.  (See Step Six). Go 'ooh' at 'part of the soul in the Japanese Shinto faith, roughly equivalent to ghost, spirit, or soul'.

Step Nine:
Realize ITunes is playing The Police's "Spirits in The Material World".  It's got a nice beat.  I can dance to it.

Step Ten:
tamas- (to dance). 


¹BSOOP = "Bright Shiny Object Oriented Programming".  My DH's term for how my brain works.   For the record, I don't speak Finnish either, and I didn't retain much from my two semesters of Japanese (though it improved my French!).  Thanks for the analysis, man.

[Ken]

  I want to know where eidzenshi came from, then.

[Mithfindel]

As a fact, I did go thru the words yesterday. Proofwrote those after I got back from work and before having dinner and going out. Now should just start adding the successive pages (that's only one page).

Also, a few things that might be interesting to have a look in ingame snippets (essentially names) is the -nen suffix (in Finnish, that refers either to a page or then is a diminuitive). -la does refer to a placename (roughly -ton). The basic twists seem to include messing up with short/long vowels and single/double consonants. Going back the steps for Mens Reppola, translating his last name in English: Reppo + -la => Repo (poetic "fox") + -la => Foxton. If you really want to double the second consonant, he'd end up being Foxxton. (And no, Tibus Heth sounds more like broken Latin to me along with his Templis Dragonaurs. Obvious corruptive Gallente influence!)

Edit: And oh, eidzenshi, my guess: z and sh don't appear in Finnish, so that's something Japanese-sounding. "eid" might be the first syllable from edetä "advance". So, splitting and mixing, it'd be a mix of edetä and iz-(something)-shi? (Edit of an edit: Japanese word for "advance" is shinpo)

If wanting to get serious, I'd recommend trying to figure out a few verb declensions (classes of verbs) and try to get them have regular endings for the nominative forms. Alternatively, make nominatives completely regular based on the last sound of the root, and list only roots (already having introduced how to use stems in the beginning).

Edit2: Grammar might require some work. Making nouns from verbs is covered - would all roots be considered possible to make verbs with verb stems? Could I say "marui" for "to ship, transport by ship"? Or is there a specific way "to verb" subjectives?

[Vieve]

I want to know where eidzenshi came from, then.

The collision of edistää, zen, and shimukeru with a couple bottles of Granny Apple Woodchuck and the urge to get rid of some poetry.   

It also started out as edzenshu, but I tweaked the spelling/endings so that it'd better fit what you'd done.

Tsuun (ha) tamasi. Pedoru.
Taaho ka (haanen) surova. Edzenshu.
Saam keitstad (haanen) kahioi. Arenya iltakui.
Taiso alaishi (haanen) vash.
Tsuun (ha) tamasi.

[Vieve]

Obvious corruptive Gallente influence!

Hey, I virtually resemble that.

Speaking of corruptive Gallente influences, you're probably about to explain to me that Nennamalia isn't a mish-mash of Caldari and Gallente that means "without effort". 

[Mithfindel]

According to official databases collected since the 19th century, there have been 331 people in Finland with the given (first or middle) name Nenna, 330 of whom have been women. (Mostly born in 80s and 90s.) There have been 5923 Finns with the given name of Maila, all women. As people may be given a composite name instead of two separate given names, Nennamaila (possibly written Nenna-Maila) is a valid Finnish girl's name.

Btw, checked a few names I remember from ingame that appear ingame (with Finnish spelling) vs. real occurance:
April - 47 women (most likely immigrants or Swedish-speaking)
Arvo - 26320 men, 5 women
Dex - 1 boy (born 2008)
Hamish - 19 men (might be possible for Swedish-speaking Finns, though I assume immigrants)
Istvan - 58 men (is a Hungarian name, distantly-related language)
Johan - 33831 men, 5 women
John - 7312 men, 8 women
Juha - 63435 men, 4 women
Juhani - 336558 men, 8 women
Juho - 53444 men, 29 women
Jussi - 24337 men
Nicole - 2 men, 862 women (likely Swedish-speaking / Russian immigrants?)
Niko - 17820 men (from Nicodemus, there's also a crapload of people named Teemu)
Nikola - 66 men, 31 women (Russian immigrants?)
Nikolai - 14572 men, 5 women (Russian name)
Nikole - 9 women
Vera - 2 men, 3601 women
Veera - 5 men, 11617 women
Veeri - 2 men
Veeti - 5565 men, 1 women

If you want to check, try http://verkkopalvelut.vrk.fi/Nimipalvelu/default.asp?L=1. Edit: "Etunimihaku" means "first name search".

In the resulting page, "hae" means "search". "Syntymävuosi" is "year of birth". "Miehiä" is "men", "naisia" is "women" and "yhteensä" means "total". "Hae vuosi" means "search by year".

[Ken]

the -nen suffix (in Finnish, that refers either to a page or then is a diminuitive)

Is that similar to the familiar names in Russian (i.e. Vasily becomes Vasha) and/or the English tendency to shorten names and put a long "e" sound at the end (i.e. Jessie, Eddy, Christy)?

I'm digging the -la sound meaning "place of", by the way.  That's directly from Finnish as well?

I'd recommend trying to figure out a few verb declensions (classes of verbs) and try to get them have regular endings for the nominative forms. Alternatively, make nominatives completely regular based on the last sound of the root, and list only roots (already having introduced how to use stems in the beginning).

I have intentionally kept declension and case out of the Napanii grammar.  Napanii is a lot like Chinese or Korean in that sense, where the context of an expression contributes to its meaning much more than conjugation.  I did this mostly because conjugation sucks and is stupid.  (I've studied Latin and speak Mandarin fluently, and believe me the latter of those two got this part right.)  Also, this makes it much easier to pick up the primer and crank out a few words or sentences for casual RP.

would all roots be considered possible to make verbs with verb stems? Could I say "marui" for "to ship, transport by ship"? Or is there a specific way "to verb" subjectives?

As explained in the primer, any root can be modified to form several parts of speech, including verbs, nouns, adjectives, etc.  Some root-stem combos will produce words that we don't use in English.  Anything listed in the glossary without an identified root in its definition can't be modified with stems.  Maru is simply and always a noun meaning "(a) ship".  There will be a different term for "to ship, transport".

However, you could have a Napanii speaker who's education is a little less than adequate who could use non-root words in that way.  Saying marui for "to transport (something) by ship" could be understandable to other Caldari, but it would make the speaker seem silly.  Imagine an English speaker saying he was going to "food the cat" rather than "feed the cat".  You'd get his meaning (maybe!) even though he hasn't used a properly formed expression.

[Mithfindel]

-nen generally does not shorted words, rather being an additional suffix. For example "poika" would be "boy". "Poikanen" would be the diminuitive (though also a proper word for the young of an animal). As an example on being used at the "place of origin" meaning there's -lainen suffix. For example, "Englanti" and "englantilainen". Another example as a proper name would be (one of the most common surnames) "Virtanen". "Virta" means stream, river or current. Virtanen might have been someone who lived by a river. (Also as an adjective - for example, "valkeus" is "brightness, lightness, whiteness". "Valkea" or "valkoinen" is "white".)

Of course, the meaning might not be the same in Napanii.

Edit: Oh, on shortening names: Dropping a few syllables off is generally used, though there may be parts added. All the J-starting names in the previous post are considered related forms of Johannes (from St. John). Johannes appears additional 240436 times as a man's and 17 times as a woman's name, with Johanna 21 times as a male and 144343 times as a female name. The rest of the forms are shortened, resulting in (male) Juhani, Juha, Juho and Jussi (Jussi is to the other forms like Jack is to John in English, as well) and Johanna, Jonna and Jossu.

[Sofia Roseburn]

Just as a note, your PDF seems to be corrupted.