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[Publius Valerius]

Hi Heidrich,

sadly I have miss the whole debate about your name  . I could give a good inside of the name, as Im a german. And yes, Heidrich and Heydrich are two different names.  I dont know were even to start  (P.S. Yes Im a german, but this doesnt makes me a nazi. I say this just to be sure. *Publius looks at some people*)

Sad thing is, I could make a long boring list about that Heidrich comes from Heinrich etc... and its name relevance. For example; by the birth of a child a family gets a so call "Familenstammbuch" (and no, it has nothing to do with Hitler or the nazis). There you will find a ling boring list of names and where they come form; you will very fast find out that most of the name have a germanic/nordic background or a latin/greek. As for Heidrich or Heinrich, it is a germanic name; the same counts for Friedrich etc.... As for Heydrich, it is a different story. As it has a ypsilion (Greek: upsilon). I would count it as un-germanic version of the name (most likely out of the english, which uses "y" heavily. Moreover in english ypsilion is more in use in the form of the german [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/I]i[/url] Here you can hear the sound: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Close_front_unrounded_vowel.ogg ). So as I can see in the catacombs...someone wrongly said, that both names would sound the same; which is wrong. But I get were the error comes from as in english, or a native english speaker; he would just see Heidrich and Heydrich as the same (as he most likely would us a "i" sound). But this is wrong... the ypsilion has sadly no sound on the wiki which I could link (but I you can imagine it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBGTot7ZTzc#t=9s Ypsilanti was a former politican). So the error is that a english speaker would as he hasnt a "ei" would create a ei thru a "ey" (and it would a "y" like in happy; ich is the same "i" sound.



Secondly which wasnt mention in the catacombs, is the grammer. Ei and Ey are two different things. "Ei", is like "au", "eu" or "oi" a Diphthong. Sadly the english language hasnt it, the closest would be lied or light. Meaning on a syllabification you cant split on a "ei" (even if german is mostly free on this, and you can mostly split words how you like. Moreover since the Rechtschreibreform),



Thirdly... How to you found all those Heidrich? I could also add a few from my school and university time  http://www.verwandt.de/karten/absolut/heidrich.html You will also see what I meant with Heydrich is un-german here: http://www.verwandt.de/karten/absolut/heydrich.html I actually first thought as I read Heydrich in the catacombs about a english dude (P.S. I also know the R. Heydrich form history).



Fourth. You will find here always guys, which just love to point fingers and scream "nazi" etc.... I remember even someone calling Popper nazi. So dont get head down just because someone cant say: "Im wrong." (*Publius enters long boring list of backstage users which had made in the past moronic, racist or elites comments* Some which even had comment abour your name) As you will never find someone which says this.... normal internet rules are also in use here. Imagine EVE as a 4chan with ships  . Always be ready to be trick, rob or insulted. As for PIE, yeah ... yeah as the others said before, dont go if you are not welcome. So easy is that. If some comes around call me  . I have no problem to say my opinion about someone. So if someone ingame or on the forum open his mouth (does a "morwen" *publius looks on the old wyke - abraxes debate. Meaning doing a Blockwart*). Just link him to here. Im a fan of those guys.

Fifthly: Sei dein eigener Herr und Master./Be our creater, our on boss. So why not just make a new corp? I would say today; a corp doesnt make a huge difference, as it had made on the start of the game (with no fleet finder and other nice tools etc....). I would even say that in the future "soft" groups become more important. Not just with the boom of FW and Dust 514, I also think; in a two, three years even 0.0 will be more "bloc-less-ish"; as with better tools you will get faster a n+1 fleet up etc....  But very off topic 


*Today the term Blockwart is mostly use to discribe people with no backbone. Which just show up and affront/hit other people if a high authority shows up. A english/american version would be of the small bully, which shows you the middle finger, and hide after that behind his big older brother with a dirty big smile  .


P.S. This post had become longer and boringer as I thought.

[Gervas Heidrich]

Oh my lord, Publius. You just made my week. You are so full of German awesomeness, I could hug you. 

[Graelyn]

I don't give 2 shits about the name.

I do care that a week-old corp is getting pissy that the oldest (yes, 10 years old) RP group in the game won't just give them a seat at the table.

I've apparently hurt some feelings over the discussion of my last name.

Was it because of the name itself, or how you handled opposition to your idea?

PIE doesn't give a shit about hoarding numbers, nor are desperate for pilots. PIE keeps a low number of players because the standards for entry are remarkably high, even among Amarr corps. Several successful Alliances and corporations were literally formed from those PIE either turned away, or those that broke away from PIE's demanding policies. I've flown with all of them, and even founded a few.

As a brand new character, you've already developed a reputation for snapping at those who hold differing opinions. Re-read your catacombed posts with an eye for a fact: Reputation is the only real currency of EVE.

To then ask to be a representative of the Imperial Praetoriate and all that entails...and be upset when there is anything but immediate acceptance..well..there's a word for that.

You're new, you can fix your reputation. However, I'm pretty sure this particular bridge is crispy-charred.

Luckily there are many many more out there, and your actual core corp idea is solid.

[Gervas Heidrich]

I don't give 2 shits about the name.

I do care that a week-old corp is getting pissy that the oldest (yes, 10 years old) RP group in the game won't just give them a seat at the table.

I've apparently hurt some feelings over the discussion of my last name.

Was it because of the name itself, or how you handled opposition to your idea?

PIE doesn't give a shit about hoarding numbers, nor are desperate for pilots. PIE keeps a low number of players because the standards for entry are remarkably high, even among Amarr corps. Several successful Alliances and corporations were literally formed from those PIE either turned away, or those that broke away from PIE's demanding policies. I've flown with all of them, and even founded a few.

As a brand new character, you've already developed a reputation for snapping at those who hold differing opinions. Re-read your catacombed posts with an eye for a fact: Reputation is the only real currency of EVE.

To then ask to be a representative of the Imperial Praetoriate and all that entails...and be upset when there is anything but immediate acceptance..well..there's a word for that.

You're new, you can fix your reputation. However, I'm pretty sure this particular bridge is crispy-charred.

Luckily there are many many more out there, and your actual core corp idea is solid.

You have quite a nerve to tell me to look at my posts in the Catacombs with an eye for fact when the subject that started the discussion was pulled out of some insane left field pool of god knows what referencing Reinhard Heydrich with little consideration to any other facts that were readily available to put that whole thing to rest. I'm upset over the idea of not having been accepted on the grounds that I was told the reason my application was delayed was because of how some took issue to my name and not how I handled it. I'd even quote the person who said it, but I have no issue with the person enough to blast their name through the mud. My characters may be relatively new, but my experience in EVE is far from having fallen off a turnip-truck and I snap at people who come at me with factless ignorance who throw accusations at me without even giving me the courtesy of going "Hey, curious name you've got - Can you tell us why you chose it?". I'd have been far more open to the idea of petitioning CCP to change the name had it not been for the way in which this entire ordeal started. You approach me with a howitzer pointed at my face and you better well believe I'm going to have my defensive counter-measures up to deflect the round.

[Graelyn]

Well, I hope in time you'll learn to handle a lot worse, a lot better.

[Creep]

Hi Heidrich,

sadly I have miss the whole debate about your name  . I could give a good inside of the name, as Im a german. And yes, Heidrich and Heydrich are two different names.  I dont know were even to start  (P.S. Yes Im a german, but this doesnt makes me a nazi. I say this just to be sure. *Publius looks at some people*)

Sad thing is, I could make a long boring list about that Heidrich comes from Heinrich etc... and its name relevance. For example; by the birth of a child a family gets a so call "Familenstammbuch" (and no, it has nothing to do with Hitler or the nazis). There you will find a ling boring list of names and where they come form; you will very fast find out that most of the name have a germanic/nordic background or a latin/greek. As for Heidrich or Heinrich, it is a germanic name; the same counts for Friedrich etc.... As for Heydrich, it is a different story. As it has a ypsilion (Greek: upsilon). I would count it as un-germanic version of the name (most likely out of the english, which uses "y" heavily. Moreover in english ypsilion is more in use in the form of the german [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/I]i[/url] Here you can hear the sound: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Close_front_unrounded_vowel.ogg ). So as I can see in the catacombs...someone wrongly said, that both names would sound the same; which is wrong. But I get were the error comes from as in english, or a native english speaker; he would just see Heidrich and Heydrich as the same (as he most likely would us a "i" sound). But this is wrong... the ypsilion has sadly no sound on the wiki which I could link (but I you can imagine it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBGTot7ZTzc#t=9s Ypsilanti was a former politican). So the error is that a english speaker would as he hasnt a "ei" would create a ei thru a "ey" (and it would a "y" like in happy; ich is the same "i" sound.



Secondly which wasnt mention in the catacombs, is the grammer. Ei and Ey are two different things. "Ei", is like "au", "eu" or "oi" a Diphthong. Sadly the english language hasnt it, the closest would be lied or light. Meaning on a syllabification you cant split on a "ei" (even if german is mostly free on this, and you can mostly split words how you like. Moreover since the Rechtschreibreform),

SOUNDS LIKE NAZI-SPEAK TO ME. GET 'IM, BOYS!

~MURICA~

(Thank you for that, Publius. The moral outrage over something so wrong, yet so obvious to a German-speaker, really rubbed me the wrong way in that thread.)

EDIT: Also, Graelyn, far be it from me to suggest how you run your Corp and handle your indignation, but Heidrich was actually the last person to take issue with Laerise in that thread, opting instead for the much more mature option of "...Huh. Can we get this thread back on track now?".
It was the rest of the community who got all up in her grill and whatnot.

Also, just as I was going to write this, I realized there's a guy with the first name of "Reinheart" browsing the forums. Can we brand him with the Misspelled-Reinhard-Heydrich logo too?

[Publius Valerius]

Hi Heidrich,

sadly I have miss the whole debate about your name  . I could give a good inside of the name, as Im a german. And yes, Heidrich and Heydrich are two different names.  I dont know were even to start  (P.S. Yes Im a german, but this doesnt makes me a nazi. I say this just to be sure. *Publius looks at some people*)

Sad thing is, I could make a long boring list about that Heidrich comes from Heinrich etc... and its name relevance. For example; by the birth of a child a family gets a so call "Familenstammbuch" (and no, it has nothing to do with Hitler or the nazis). There you will find a ling boring list of names and where they come form; you will very fast find out that most of the name have a germanic/nordic background or a latin/greek. As for Heidrich or Heinrich, it is a germanic name; the same counts for Friedrich etc.... As for Heydrich, it is a different story. As it has a ypsilion (Greek: upsilon). I would count it as un-germanic version of the name (most likely out of the english, which uses "y" heavily. Moreover in english ypsilion is more in use in the form of the german [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/I]i[/url] Here you can hear the sound: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Close_front_unrounded_vowel.ogg ). So as I can see in the catacombs...someone wrongly said, that both names would sound the same; which is wrong. But I get were the error comes from as in english, or a native english speaker; he would just see Heidrich and Heydrich as the same (as he most likely would us a "i" sound). But this is wrong... the ypsilion has sadly no sound on the wiki which I could link (but I you can imagine it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBGTot7ZTzc#t=9s Ypsilanti was a former politican). So the error is that a english speaker would as he hasnt a "ei" would create a ei thru a "ey" (and it would a "y" like in happy; ich is the same "i" sound.



Secondly which wasnt mention in the catacombs, is the grammer. Ei and Ey are two different things. "Ei", is like "au", "eu" or "oi" a Diphthong. Sadly the english language hasnt it, the closest would be lied or light. Meaning on a syllabification you cant split on a "ei" (even if german is mostly free on this, and you can mostly split words how you like. Moreover since the Rechtschreibreform),

SOUNDS LIKE NAZI-SPEAK TO ME. GET 'IM, BOYS!

~MURICA~

(Thank you for that, Publius. The moral outrage over something so wrong, yet so obvious to a German-speaker, really rubbed me the wrong way in that thread.)

"Thank you for that, Publius. The moral outrage over something so wrong, yet so obvious to a German-speaker, really rubbed me the wrong way in that thread."

Why? Or How come? I mean, why had it rubbed you in the wrong way? 

Well, I hope in time you'll learn to handle a lot worse, a lot better.

Oh yeah, the sad* true.  I just repost it and highlight it so I can link to it later.

*I dont know if sad is the right word.... I mean in a sandbox, you should have it all: The good, the bad and the ugly.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I've apparently hurt some feelings over the discussion of my last name.

Was it because of the name itself, or how you handled opposition to your idea?

The opposition to the idea, as presented in the relevant thread... seems to me to have been far out of line. It was trollish, offensive, and generally mean. It was bad enough that I am not surprised the whole thread got modded. I am surprised the first 'nazi' post didn't get modded before the whole discussion became an issue.

That said, Gervas, you are applying to PIE after all. Graelyn has a point. PIE takes pride in its exclusivity and getting in is no easy task. Even if you had a name that caused no issue, they'd likely have taken issue with something else. They are elitists, and I use the term affectionately. One of the biggest tests to getting into PIE is how you handle their faked or real criticisms of you: If you can't answer the interview question-traps correctly, you don't get the job.

[Mithfindel]

Joining a corporation or joining an alliance, it is probably worth to cite this Ctrl-Alt-Del strip:
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20120625

Edit: Probably worth to note that I don't know the contents of your discussion (and prefer not to, actually), but in first place, if a group has a specific procedure publicly mentioned for joining, nonconforming or unsolicited applications are treated with extreme suspicion. Details below.

In corporation, if you gain the roles, you can steal stuff. Or spy. Some of us might still hold stereotypies that RPers still play according to Space Bushido, but in fact RPers can play just as dirty as anyone. For further assurance, there have been "corp thefts" in *drumroll* Lord of the Rings Online roleplaying servers. Which hardly are the model of a cutthroat sandbox.

Similarly, in an alliance, if you recruit anyone, you may soon find that some of the newer arrivals band together and organize a coup in the alliance, since alliance executorship is by vote. Therefore, especially small alliances like PIE's could be expected to be very strict about who they recruit. While <alliance/corporation X> may be a visible supporter of its faction, membership of the alliance/corporation isn't a categorical right of the roleplayers belonging to that faction. If it were, let me assure you that we'd probably see occasional waves of trolls from people who figured out that "lolRPers" are a good target. (I think at one point, militias had a plenty of people who were in for the free wardec, and happily shot friendly militia, too?)

In addition to this we have to consider the history. PIElliance was born on times when corporations could not have more than three outgoing declarations of war whereas alliances could have more. Also, corporations needed to have a shareholder vote before declaring war, whereas alliances could declare a war right away. So I am not completely sure whether the alliance is even supposed to have more than PIE and their related corps. They've had Praetorian Shipyards and the "foreign legions" in addition to Rodj Blake's holding corporation, I think? (And the holding corporation only because they needed to mothball the alliance back when PIE was in FW and FW didn't allow alliances - keeping an alliance on hold costs pocket change, but finding a new one costs a billion ISK or so, and in extreme cases some trolls might grab the name for themselves. (Alliances can share tickers with corps, but cannot share the full name with a corp or an individual, therefore having a throwaway trial account make a corp named after a disbanded alliance is a way to prevent the alliance reforming under the same name, at least without "allianceDOT" or similar stuff.)

[Publius Valerius]

I've apparently hurt some feelings over the discussion of my last name.

Was it because of the name itself, or how you handled opposition to your idea?

The opposition to the idea, as presented in the relevant thread... seems to me to have been far out of line. It was trollish, offensive, and generally mean. It was bad enough that I am not surprised the whole thread got modded. I am surprised the first 'nazi' post didn't get modded before the whole discussion became an issue.

That said, Gervas, you are applying to PIE after all. Graelyn has a point. PIE takes pride in its exclusivity and getting in is no easy task. Even if you had a name that caused no issue, they'd likely have taken issue with something else. They are elitists, and I use the term affectionately. One of the biggest tests to getting into PIE is how you handle their faked or real criticisms of you: If you can't answer the interview question-traps correctly, you don't get the job.

Actually he said, it was about the name; and I believe him. I also believe it was NOT the real reason for not wanting him. As I know PIE, and; yes there is a reason that I call them Rednecks on the EVE-Forum; H. Caul will confirm this  .


About: "It was trollish, offensive, and generally mean." Really, Kat you are one of the few reasonable people here. But if you found this out off line, I can show you some white power/white supremacy rhetoric form Gotti, hellgremlin, which still got not moderated. I also could add Laerise too, if you count fictitious racism; moreover most of PIE, as they still see the conflict as fight against the minmatar race and not as a fight against a slave uprising and its offsping the Republic. Sometimes I could puk at some PIE post on the IGS, which forgot this... and I was always short of saying: "Hey you moron, why you not start to kill the minis in your own possession?"

About elites, yeah I hear that even from Goons too . Im not joking, during the waiting time until the blobb is ready you will hear a lot of stuff: Sometimes a Dude, which comes along with a category systems for humans (RealLife and/or in-game); miraculously this category systems means that the Dude is in the top group of his system  . The same counts for elitism in EVE, it is made up-stuff as the fly and walk along, with NO REAL MEANING, and miraculously this made-up stuff means that you, unlike them, not on top. The question is you are willing to believe it/or roll that way? If the answer is no, PIE wouldnt be a good home. Long story short:

• - Do you think about Laerise critque on your name in the same way as I? If yes, PIE isnt a good home for you.
• - Do you like made up-elitism? No, then PIE isnt a good home for you.
• - Do you have a problem with the idea, that Dude (x) is superior to you because he had hit the "create character botton" years before you? To you have a problem, to be below this guy even if he knows less about the Lore, and he is at best a meh-ish FC? If the answer would be yes. Dont go... to 3/4 of all RP EVE corporations  .
• - You have also read above: "Was it because of the name itself, or how you handled opposition to your idea?" I believe this a case of made-up stuff (Sorry Grawlyn  ). Years close to Goons had give me a six sense for BS if you like. Like: You are to ugly, go buy stuff from the NeX or you cant join  . ). So Graelyn should truly said: "Was it because of NO REASON WHAT SO EVER (aka name debate), or how you handled opposition to your made up shit (in comparison to our made up shit)?
  As you see, you have like in Goons, two wanna be choices. Which more or less say: We give a fuck and we even dont care for a real answer  . If you have a problem with this kind of behavior never come close to Goons, PIE etc....
• - Most important point. Do you have a problem with a little "Redneckish" characters (aka low knowledge and high self-confidence)? Stay away form them  . P.S. Do you guys - PIE - still use "Hail" as a interjection? Even as the romans never use it that way. I remember long time ago on my main, on a goons chat, a corp mate had destructed one of your PIE guys. He had use Hail as a interjection (Like Hail Jamyl etc), he got attack form this guy. First reaction of the PIE guy was of course to say: "Im not a nazi, I have said "Hail" because of the romans." Which is of course wrong. The romans use hail just in connection with a object, so in englisch would it be a "hail to". The interjection would be Ave. One of the funny moments in EVE.  So may I ask (Laerise and others PIEs), do you guys still use "Hail"?

[/li]
[/list]






In general Mithfindel has made good summery, which is most likely the TRUE reason: And I will just highlight, the important stuff: THE FEAR OF GETTING ROB. http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=4634.msg73425#msg73425

[Sepherim]

About elites, yeah I hear that even from Goons too . Im not joking, during the waiting time until the blobb is ready you will hear a lot of stuff: Sometimes a Dude, which comes along with a category systems for humans (RealLife and/or in-game); miraculously this category systems means that the Dude is in the top group of his system  . The same counts for elitism in EVE, it is made up-stuff as the fly and walk along, with NO REAL MEANING, and miraculously this made-up stuff means that you, unlike them, not on top. The question is you are willing to believe it/or roll that way? If the answer is no, PIE wouldnt be a good home.

Everything in society is "made up-stuff": rituals, relationships, bonds, currency, etc. So, saying power structures are "made up-stuff" is like saying nothing at all. So all the discussion on pointless "dude being over you" in any and all corporations being meaningless because it's "made up-stuff" is like going to your real world teacher/boss/president and saying you are not bellow them because it's "made up-stuff".

P.S. Do you guys - PIE - still use "Hail" as a interjection? Even as the romans never use it that way. I remember long time ago on my main, on a goons chat, a corp mate had destructed one of your PIE guys. He had use Hail as a interjection (Like Hail Jamyl etc), he got attack form this guy. First reaction of the PIE guy was of course to say: "Im not a nazi, I have said "Hail" because of the romans." Which is of course wrong. The romans use hail just in connection with a object, so in englisch would it be a "hail to". The interjection would be Ave. One of the funny moments in EVE.  So may I ask (Laerise and others PIEs), do you guys still use "Hail"?

Not that I've seen. We usually choose Ave, which is my favorite, or Salve.



In general Mithfindel has made good summery, which is most likely the TRUE reason: And I will just highlight, the important stuff: THE FEAR OF GETTING ROB. http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=4634.msg73425#msg73425
[/quote]

[Nicoletta Mithra]

While Publius is right that the diphtong /ɛɪ̯/ does exist in the German language and is usually spelled ey or ej, it only does dwell in the lexical periphery ("ey!, Spray, Schwejk") and it's not the pronouncaition of the name in question: Heydrich [pronounced ˈhaɪdʁɪç] is obviously pronounced with the /aɪ̯/ or ei diphtong - which can be written 'ei', 'ey', 'ai' or 'ay'.

Som, that it has the same pronounciation as Heidrich is really obvious to everyone who's able to decipher IPA. As to german speakers, the more natural pronouncation is with /aɪ̯/ as well, though it is, really, not particularly obvious, just much more probable.

The opposition to the idea, as presented in the relevant thread... seems to me to have been far out of line. It was trollish, offensive, and generally mean.

If that's been the case, then the post in question should just have been reported as such. All I can say is that I did mean to be neither trollish nor offensive and generally mean. As a German I might be oversensitive with the topic and might thus have overreacted, though. Still, I really didn't feel quite fairly treated in regard to my voiced concerns.

[Natalcya Katla]

SOUNDS LIKE NAZI-SPEAK TO ME. GET 'IM, BOYS!

~MURICA~

(Thank you for that, Publius. The moral outrage over something so wrong, yet so obvious to a German-speaker, really rubbed me the wrong way in that thread.)

Laerise and Nicoletta are both German, you know. There's been no "German-bashing" by Americans here as far as I have seen. In fact, as far as I have seen, the Americans in this community tend to show quite a lot of respect for other cultures besides their own. The reverse is unfortunately not always the case. "Murica" is not only a slur, and thus inappropriate in and of itself, but also entirely inaccurate in this particular case.

And before you ask (or just presume, as the case may be), I am not American either.

[Creep]

SOUNDS LIKE NAZI-SPEAK TO ME. GET 'IM, BOYS!

~MURICA~

(Thank you for that, Publius. The moral outrage over something so wrong, yet so obvious to a German-speaker, really rubbed me the wrong way in that thread.)

Laerise and Nicoletta are both German, you know. There's been no "German-bashing" by Americans here as far as I have seen. In fact, as far as I have seen, the Americans in this community tend to show quite a lot of respect for other cultures besides their own. The reverse is unfortunately not always the case. "Murica" is not only a slur, and thus inappropriate in and of itself, but also entirely inaccurate in this particular case.

And before you ask (or just presume, as the case may be), I am not American either.

Well, that shocks the shit out of me. As a Schweizer, it didn't even occur to me to connect the name Heidrich with Heydrich.
I now feel sorry for everyone in Germany who has the name Heidrich, if that's the typical German response.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

I'm sure I'm opening myself to a flame job here, but I agree with Graelyn on this. You've taken your brand new corp and applied to PIE (kudos for chutzpah here!), which would basically be the equivalent of an unknown and newly created character joining a wealthy and established corp as a director. A peer, as it were, to the other established corporations in the alliance. Four or five days pass. You then come to an outside forum to discuss this.

Many corporations take at least four or five days to talk to a prospective member and decide amongst themselves if that person would be a good fit. And this is to bring someone on as a recruit. Bringing a new corporation into an established alliance is much more intimate, as that corp will have much more of an impact on the reputation of the alliance than a mere recruit would.

In my opinion, you should have gone to resolve this with PIE first, instead of airing all of this laundry here. Were I a member of PIE, that would be reason enough to vote against you.