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[Hamish Grayson]

Saddly, that one RPer just happened to be in the right place at the right time to be picked as the lead in a play already writen in advance by CCP. 

[Anslol]

There has been murmurs about ending the Faction War / Incursion, but unfortunately that is a business suicide maneuver at present. Faction War is a big feature for a lot of players in low security, and Incursion has fallen in line with farming venues quite well. Effectively removing or disabling them will anger the wider community than it would improve it.

If, however, a storyline change could lead into new mechanics that effectively replace these features - then we might see a story evolution.  A second iteration on both that gives them a new body and functionality while evolving the political landscape. I think perhaps the goal you want would be better received if you can find a means of selling it to a lot of players - not just story minded ones.

Thanks Ghost. I read a post somewhere (I think the Caldari Arc one) on here where it was suggested that the Empires sat and officially ended hostilities between the Empires Proper, BUT allowed a proxy war to continue by the capsuleers. That way, any possible incursion of one Empire into another's high sec space could be averted (i.e. Blaque going full derp and attacking the State). I think something like that would be possible? But then why bother with the story in the first place if nothing on the surface really changes and only lore is heavily affected...

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Game mechanics will always come ahead of story.  It is just a fact of life.

[Anslol]

Ugh it just sucks. It looks like there's a great opportunity for some...earth shaking LE to happen and a story to come out but...GAHEMRHIMETHMERM.

[Hamish Grayson]

They could rotate the NPCs in incursions around...or just add other incursions on top of them.   Pirate incursions of all factions all over the place!  A step up from missions.   You could even have the empires raiding each other via the incursion mechanic.

[Ghost Hunter]

Ugh it just sucks. It looks like there's a great opportunity for some...earth shaking LE to happen and a story to come out but...GAHEMRHIMETHMERM.

Yes, that fact is why I dreaded the release of Incursion when I first caught wind of its expansion. At the time I made the bet it would effectively end Sansha's story progression, and thus far it has proven entirely true in that assumption. This is good for other parts of the community, as actor resources are diverted to different sectors for their stories. Since the incarnation of the second live events team, I've seen a general touch up on stories for all the other factions.

As for the end of hostilities between the Empires proper, I don't recall that ever really being made out. The Faction War was put in place by CONCORD to stop all out war, but the Empires escalated how much they bite each others' heels. CONCORD is doing a lot of political dickery in order to stop a melt-down of intergalactic relations into a chain reaction event. Once the Empires lose their shit and go at it, the Pirate Factions will jump all over them. Welcome to Thunderdome, New Eden edition.

[orange]

I am going to leave this here... Fed-State RP Writing the Future

[Sakura Nihil]

As I've said IC'ly via Sak, the only way the two empires will be able to work together as individual entities are for the following conditions to be met:

1) Luminaire, the entire system, as a DMZ.  No FedNav or CalNav presence at all in the system to threaten the other side.

2) An external threat, so that the leaders of both empires can do the political calculus that "it's better to team up and beat this threat than both go down to said threat".  This would provide the critical motivation for people to team up with traditional rivals and enemies - see the US and Russian cooperation during WW2 as a likely example of how such an arrangement might arise (and how quickly it could also fall apart).

3) A secure path from the State directly to Luminaire, so that we don't effectively have an EVE version of Berlin occur, where a bisected city is an enclave within the territory of only a single power, and thus liable to blockade.  Not that the Fed would do such a thing...

4) Trade.  Lots of it.  The kind that forges deep economic interdependence and makes going to war very risky economically, and helps the two cultures interact and get to know each other as real people rather than "the enemy population".

Any of these four (or other, similar options) would help advance the cause of peace.  Ultimately, the Fed needs to respect the fact that for peace, lasting peace to occur, Caldari Prime must be owned by the government of the Caldari people.  Anything less than that will not lead to a peaceful relationship between the two empires.

Ultimately, it's not out of the realm of possibility for the two empires to... not merge, but be superceeded by a supranational entity.  A RL example would be France and Germany, two historical adversaries, helping found and develop the EU.  In time, the EU might develop to the point where member states act less like nations, and more like US states behave within the US federal system.  Giving up sovereignty to become part of something greater is a very tough move, especially for nations that have been around for centuries, and this includes the Caldari and Gallente empires in EVE.

However, it is possible, as long as there's a real willingness to address the grievances on both sides of the divide.

[BloodBird]

Not a bad list of options Sakura, but they will not be met in-game. Not because CCP will never let them due to game-mechanics (though this is ofc the nr1 reason atm) but because there are several factors in the way of your ideas here.

1. Luminaire as a DMZ will have to be agreed on by the entire Federal population of the system for the governments to agree on pushing it as an option and then bringing it up to the Senate and then becoming reality. They are extremely unlikely to like the idea, but it's not impossible.

2. So far it seems Sansha's nation has not been enough to form a mutual pact. The war still rages on despite the incursions. Ofc this is, again, game-mechanics' fault. Incursions will have to be evolved into something else, something far worse for the outsider enemy idea to kick in. That or the other pirate factions or even a whole new danger starts working up. Another small, but possible fix.

3. Given combined history, the only 'secure path' the Fed will ever likely agree with is using the existing gates as a highway-to-Luminaire from the State's border overseen by Fed-navy ships and constantly patrolled, with heavy limits to how many and what kind of ships get to move about at a time. This might be agreeable to both sides, but it will require lots and lots of trust that is not likely to exist atm. Another possible future option, though.

4. This one will never happen. It simply won't. The Fed prides itself on having a powerful and integral trade network that spans the whole Fed and keeps the economy on the level of being the de-facto most powerful one in the cluster. Becoming dependent on another faction for their economy to run is never going to happen, it will never be accepted, much like the State won't accept not having Caldari Prime. Worse is, it's not just trade. The Fed prides itself on being 100% independent on everything, end of story. I foresee no way this will change unless CCP retcons the Fed into something entirely different than what they are.

Also, note that the State is not the 'government of the Caldari people' they are the government of all the Caldari of the State, and that's it. I don't know how many percentages of the total Caldari population resides in the State but it is by far not all of them, a great deal of Caldari still reside in the Fed and a huge number of those live on Caldari Prime. The Caldari Prime situation is effectively a great deal of Federal Caldari (among other people) occupied by a non-Federal power who happen to be Caldari as well. The State may claim that they are the only real representatives of the entire race, but this claim is not even remotely true, no matter how hard the State's people wish it was true.

Thus technically from the Fed perspective Caldari Prime as a planet were under the control of "The Caldari" to begin with, as in it was the lawfully owned land of all the various Caldari Nations on the planet and everyone else who live there. Saying to the State that they may have the planet is likely going to be completely unacceptable because that's legitimizing the hostile take-over of Federation member-Nation's land - as a huge alliance, it's not a good idea to out-right ignore the practical theft of alliance members' property, it defeats the point of having the alliance in the first place.

It might be possible for CCP to create a situation where the State and Federation co-exists and the State get's the property they effectively abandoned a long time ago back, but it will require a long time of careful and slow dealings to get us through this highly complicated situation and to that point, without effectively displaying the Fed as utterly weak-sauce pushovers who will cave in on their own principles whenever convenient to them, but hey, not like the Fed has not got a good wack if the incompetent stick before... 

[Sakura Nihil]

1) Indeed, not to mention the State's leadership (be it Heth, the CEP, the Megas, w/e) would have to agree to this proposal, which they're not guaranteed to do.

2) Basically yes, until the threat becomes large enough to threaten the very existence of the Fed or the State, you'll see traditional "us vs. them" attitudes prevail.  As it stands now, these are minor incursions, annoyances in the grand scheme of things.  If anyone wants a good example in fiction of the difference, I recommend Mass Effect 2 versus Mass Effect 3.

3) Indeed.

4) This is actually where I disagree a bit - I would argue that the Fed's desire for peace and expansion of their cultural norms of democracy and all that would override their desire to be self-sufficient.  Especially if this interdependence also affected the Caldari, and would force them to think about the potential damage to their economy should hostilities arise.  Again, to use another real-world example, look at France and Germany - who could imagine these two powers going to war in this day and age?  Yet, from the late 1800's to 1945, there were three major wars between the powers.  Trade and cultural exchange are big drivers in making peace possible, and I think the Gallente would be willing to embrace this, mainly for strategic reasons.

With regards to Federal Caldari owning the territory of the planet, and how the Fed wouldn't throw them under the bus for peace, I don't know about that.  If their territorial rights had to be removed (preferably with compensation) for the Fed and State to come to a lasting peace that would benefit countless billions, don't think for a second that this minority stakeholder group would stand in the way of that.  Besides, who says they have to be dispossessed - if the system is a DMZ, they could continue to hold the land, they'd simply fall under a different sovereignty than before.  I think this is something of a non-issue to be honest.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

I don't think the Caldari and Federation need a single unifying threat to get them to come to terms for each other; neither side is particular interested in fighting with the other on the whole. For the Caldari, war is expensive and forces them to deal with a vast amount of overhead, not to mention the Federation is the most profitable market for their goods (probably few people than the Empire, but more people actually buying stuff). If they could get what they wanted without war, I suspect most Caldari (at least the Liberals and Practicals) would rather do so. For the Federation, the war is also expensive, but they also don't have much to gain from it either -- Caldari Prime holds no special significance to them (aside from being in the heart of the capital), trying to conquer the State will be even bloodier than the last time they fought the Caldari, and I don't think they have much interest in pursuing it for any other reason.

That being said, as I stated before, now that Caldari Prime is under Caldari control once more I do not think even the most peaceable Caldari megacorporations will be willing to give it up; the Federation would have to acknowledge their claim, and then there would have to be some treaty worked out either demilitarizing Luminaire and a path from there to the State or maintaining some sort of joint military deployment monitored by CONCORD or something (even though Caldari and Federation trust of CONCORD is probably a little thin at the moment). I cannot see the Caldari allowing the Federation to dictate the terms of their travel to and from Caldari Prime; there's too much distrust there from the Caldari side, not that the Federation would break the peace with an invasion necessarily, but that they would try to starve the planet out and impose arbitration restrictions out of spite.

[Anslol]

So I want to revive this thread following the tragedy that befell Caldari Prime and see what people think now about some form of agreement or working partnership between the Caldari and Gallente, ESPECIALLY now with the onset of Mega's defying Heth and assisting in fixing the planet.

Thoughts?

[Silas Vitalia]

Unless pirate factions are added to Facwar to open up new lowsec fronts for STPRO and FDU, the cal/gal war will not stop.

Much like incursions the game mechanics and LP machine is too entwined to the game, and would cause much tears if removed.

The storyline will bend to the game mechanics as stands, not the other way around.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Unless pirate factions are added to Facwar to open up new lowsec fronts for STPRO and FDU, the cal/gal war will not stop.

The faction warfare mechanic is old and stale as it is now. Opening up pirate factions makes the most sense.

[Korsavius]

This is something I've put some thought into as well, especially since the development of recent events. It would fulfill my greatest wishes to my heart's content (both IC and OOC) if CCP decided to end the war between Gallente/Caldari and instead installed a pirate faction warfare system. The new system would work much in the same way as the current system, but it would be Caldari vs Guristas/Gallente vs Serpentis. For once in a very long time CCP has developed the story in such a way that allows for a terribly long, terribly outdated cycle to finally be broken in favor of a new, more dynamic one. I seriously hope they don't screw it up.