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[Katrina Oniseki]

I was originally going to post this anonymously, but decided against it. I hope everyone can stay respectful and not make personal attacks and try to stay away from 'urdoinitrong' comments...

"Space Lesbians"

We use the term a lot, most of us. Some of us preface our characters by defining whether we are one or not. Some of us jokingly or seriously prod at other characters using the term. Others make judgments about RP based on it, or imply judgments. The word has started to become synonymous with role-play that isn’t serious or as worthwhile as heterosexual or male/male relationships.

But what is a Space Lesbian? Is it simply any character changed in homosexual role-play between two females? Is it the aforementioned type of character but played by a male in RL? Is it suggesting that lesbians in EVE should only be played by actual females? Is it a character whose purpose is primarily sexual? Does it suggest promiscuity?  Does it mean the player is sexually insecure? Is being a space lesbian ‘doinitrong’?

The problem with the term 'space lesbian' is that it's become so common and used in a derogatory way that some of us may not realize how offensive it can be. There are many female characters who are involved in serious and monogamous homosexual relationships in EVE played by people who put a lot of effort into their role-play. There are those who are gay or lesbian, or otherwise queer, in real life who could feel bothered by the comment. While it’s understandable that not everybody is accepting of homosexuality, those who are should be more careful when using the term.

In many societies, being homosexual can get you excluded from society, placed under judicial punishment, or worse. This isn’t reality. This isn’t a call for gay rights. This isn’t a cry for help. It is however a petition for those who share this role-play community to be careful instead of casually throwing the phrase around. There are players, friends of yours even, who play lesbians in EVE – and who might be offended. Let’s all try to be more accepting of other’s choices in role-play.

[Ciarente]

+ 1

I resemble these remarks.

[kalaratiri]

As an accidental space lesbian, I approve of this message.

[Vincent Pryce]

Considering I was the one who coined the phrase to begin with to describe my alt Selkie and a character called Sara Izlion when we were lolling about in a common OOC channel Ghost Festival public was it, I'll chip in my 0.02isk.

I started using it as a three things, playful joke, troll phrase and last but not least a derogatory term for the endless lipstick fantasy lesbian couples that sprung along at the time in EVE RP community. Essentially horny guys who were acting out their favourite porn troupes from which ever fantasy at the time. It sort of picked on from there among the community.

Aside from that I've got nothing against lesbian or gay RP ( not enough manlove though :< ) if it's something with serious intent an a development of character that has more meaning than khanid slave girl #789 going all sorority girl on Gallente Hussy # 69.

Since many years have passed, the term has taken a life of it's own and many people use it and in many different ways. Viva la language.

Inb4 someone accuses me of homophobia, no that's not the case. Who you love or desire is not my concern as long as it's all consensual and makes you happy.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Considering I was the one who coined the phrase to begin with to describe my alt Selkie and a character called Sara Izlion when we were lolling about in a common OOC channel Ghost Festival public was it, I'll chip in my 0.02isk.

I started using it as a three things, playful joke, troll phrase and last but not least a derogatory term for the endless lipstick fantasy lesbian couples that sprung along at the time in EVE RP community. Essentially horny guys who were acting out their favourite porn troupes from which ever fantasy at the time. It sort of picked on from there among the community.

Aside from that I've got nothing against lesbian or gay RP ( not enough manlove though :< ) if it's something with serious intent an a development of character that has more meaning than khanid slave girl #789 going all sorority girl on Gallente Hussy # 69.

Since many years have passed, the term has taken a life of it's own and many people use it and in many different ways. Viva la language.

Inb4 someone accuses me of homophobia, no that's not the case. Who you love or desire is not my concern as long as it's all consensual and makes you happy.

Thank you for your post, and I believe what you say in your last few lines. You don't strike me outwardly as the type to do anything but harmlessly troll a bit for giggles.

I didn't really know the history of the term until now, so it's interesting to hear the creator of it (or... coiner? Whatever) speak up.

[Lasairiona]

I've jokingly said Lasa would go "space lesbian" but I don't mean anything horrible by it. I grew up in San Francisco ('nough said). I don't think anyone means any offense by it and I would hate to see someone feel put down or insulted by the use of the term 

[Lyn Farel]

It's often the same thing than dramaqueens using a particular kind of RP to serve their sinistrous fantasies will always bleed over more serious players using the same kind of RP. Like ex minmatar lolraped slaves. We could also find derogatory terms for these (and maybe it already exists) and get the same issue with more serious players playing ex slaves.

The spece lesbian term has become a catch all word that can be used in many different ways by many different players. Some will use it seriously to negatively paint the "horny males", some will use it as a joke of self denigration "here i stand, serious space lesbian, surrounded by lol space lesbians", some will use is as a blanket term, etc.

It has become horribly ambiguous.

[kalaratiri]

I always took it as something of a term of endearment, mostly because it was mostly used (in reference to me) by people who I got on well with. I don't think anyone ever called me it as a derogatory term, probably because I didn't flaunt it around, and because it was something I didn't plan to do that just ended up developing through RP.

And a lot of the time, 'space bi' would probably be more accurate anyway. Need more men who aren't total assholes

[Myyona]

I do not go around calling people 'space lesbians', but I also read the term with a different meaning than simply the sexual orientation of an individual and more like something that have ended up as an cliche.

It is the same kind of cliche I see when a capsuleer appears that is a omniscient and discusses any topic as some kind of (pocket) philosophist regardless of supposedly character background. It makes me miss the "average" and "normal" (not referring to sexuality) people and I have much respect for those who stick to a narrow portrayal of their charters.

I had a similar experience with a cartoon site I was visiting where more and more of the different stories I was following started introducing lesbian main characters while none of them had a single gay character.

Hm, I am certain there is a word for this, let me see what Google says...

[Chell Charon]

And a lot of the time, 'space bi' would probably be more accurate anyway. Need more men who aren't total assholes

Really? Really? Really.
"Need more women who aren't total bitches."
Sadly srs. Since when men being "assholes" causes lesbians? This almost demands someone to IC roll up a nice guy and go "Yeah I like women more, a lot more, but hey there ain't nice enough girls around so I had to go gay." (I just don't think thats how sexual preferences work.)

I understand that the term space lesbian, when used in unkind manner refers to a style of RP instead of actually being something that is intended as a lambasting roleplaying of a sexual orientation. Most often I see it used it is either ribbing people in a friendly manner or making fun of our little RP community having that insane statistical tilt towards lesbianism. (Speaking of characters not players)

And that does bring a point up about my original quote. How come every single culture where we have lesbian characters (or characters in general deviating from norm) in seems to be a-ok with it?

(Storing up rants, for being way aside the discussion.)

[kalaratiri]

And a lot of the time, 'space bi' would probably be more accurate anyway. Need more men who aren't total assholes

Really? Really? Really.
"Need more women who aren't total bitches."
Sadly srs. Since when men being "assholes" causes lesbians? This almost demands someone to IC roll up a nice guy and go "Yeah I like women more, a lot more, but hey there ain't nice enough girls around so I had to go gay." (I just don't think thats how sexual preferences work.)

Relax, it was just a joke. A long running OOC joke among players who choose to have a lesbian characters is that "single" and "nice" seem to be mutually exclusive among men in eve. All the good ones seem to be taken (curse those women who got there first :l ).

[Saede Riordan]

And a lot of the time, 'space bi' would probably be more accurate anyway. Need more men who aren't total assholes

Really? Really? Really.
"Need more women who aren't total bitches."
Sadly srs. Since when men being "assholes" causes lesbians? This almost demands someone to IC roll up a nice guy and go "Yeah I like women more, a lot more, but hey there ain't nice enough girls around so I had to go gay." (I just don't think thats how sexual preferences work.)

Relax, it was just a joke. A long running OOC joke among players who choose to have a lesbian characters is that "single" and "nice" seem to be mutually exclusive among men in eve. All the good ones seem to be taken (curse those women who got there first :l ).

except for Pieter. And ho boy you should look at the people fawning over him.

This topic is relevant to my interests, but I find I don't have much to add. Can it be a bit silly sometimes to have someone who doesn't know how to play a female character trying to do it? Yeah but I won't begrudge them for it too much either. I think the amount that it gets brought is kind of weird. So What if I character is promiscuous? I'm pretty promiscuous OOC too. It seems like its sort of become an easy catch all term to use to try and mock people who ERP. I'm going to say something probably fairly controversial and say that if someone does ERP, who cares? Why does it matter? If you don't like it, then just don't do it. The phrase seems to me to have come out of this idea of people holding their noses up to any sort of remotely sexual roleplay. I just don't see why its a big deal.

[Ciarente]

My reading of the OP is that it is not an assertion that people use the term because they wish to be offensive, but rather a suggestion that we all think about our use of the phrase and the unintended baggage it can bring with it.

I also suggest that discussions of homosexuality in Eve cultures belong in their own thread.

[Davlos]

And a lot of the time, 'space bi' would probably be more accurate anyway. Need more men who aren't total assholes

Really? Really? Really.
"Need more women who aren't total bitches."
Sadly srs. Since when men being "assholes" causes lesbians? This almost demands someone to IC roll up a nice guy and go "Yeah I like women more, a lot more, but hey there ain't nice enough girls around so I had to go gay." (I just don't think thats how sexual preferences work.)

Relax, it was just a joke. A long running OOC joke among players who choose to have a lesbian characters is that "single" and "nice" seem to be mutually exclusive among men in eve. All the good ones seem to be taken (curse those women who got there first :l ).

The same can be said about the women. o.O A lot of women that Dav has approached turned out to batting for the same team.

[Silas Vitalia]

I believe this refers to the all common space virus which turns 95% of all female Eve RPers into lesbians.  Unless there's something in the water of New Eden its at a rate and level as to imply nearly the entire capsuleer female population is gay.

Which is super fine, but we'd imagine more of a balance perhaps. I'd imagine most of these cultures are past caring about  that sort of thing, of course.


If I had to put my finger on it I'd say it stems from the mostly male players behind female characters generally not interested in sexychats with other male characters, but rather other female characters.  I'd imagine if I'm a hetero man RPing a relationship I'd prefer to think about a space lady than some space man's dong in my face.   So to speak.

To each their own though of course!

Also the term is generally tossed about often when a 'new' female character shows up, is extremely sexual from the start, is a lesbian, and generally doesn't have much else going on beyond cruising for love in the chats, etc etc.