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[Lillith Blackheart]

EVE is a game where there are many achievements, real and tangible, to be made throughout the history of a corporation or alliance. You don't need to build outposts (or Titans) to have made real and tangible achievements in EVE.

I would suggest you're half-right on this statement. I would suggest you need to build something object-oriented (creating a trading hub, building a sovereignty, building a titan, etc) in order for it to be tangible, but something being real does not require it to be tangible.

I think what Grr was trying to say (and (s)he can correct me) was that this Outpost is the first really tangible thing that SF has accomplished. Not that it's the first "real and" tangible thing that SF has accomplished. I think that it's pretty evident when one looks over the history of EVE that SF has accomplished a very large number of very real goals, but this is really the first tangible one that I am aware of.

That does not, mind, make the previous accomplishments less valuable, simply because they are intangibles.

[The Cosmopolite]

If we're not supposed to respond then there is no conversation and the remarks seem a bit pointless.

There are other responses possible than a challenge or argument. I considered the response 'nope' quite unproductive. Did you consider it otherwise?

Given I didn't say 'nope' and given I responded not with a challenge or an argument but rather with information on another IC perspective and with an ancillary OOC perspective, I would have thought the answer is evident.

As to Lillith on 'tangible' relating to 'object-oriented' achievements, I don't altogether agree actually.

But I think this leads us to questions of interpretation and definition. I do agree that Grr was speaking reasonably if, in my arguable view, a little loosely and questionably.

I would note that as SF has a publicly-confirmed titan (and alliance members were intimately involved in the build logistics of that titan, though I personally don't see direct involvement in the build as necessary to the achievement of acquiring a titan) even on Lillith's working definition the outpost is not the first.

The thing about EVE that is so important (even if at times CCP neglect it a little) is that any alliance, corp, or for that matter individual pilot can achieve great things...

...and if anything it is through roleplay that the greatest of achievements can be attained.

If that were not so, personally I wouldn't have played this game for nigh on 6 years.

Cosmo

[Grr]

EVE is a game where there are many achievements, real and tangible, to be made throughout the history of a corporation or alliance. You don't need to build outposts (or Titans) to have made real and tangible achievements in EVE.

I would suggest you're half-right on this statement. I would suggest you need to build something object-oriented (creating a trading hub, building a sovereignty, building a titan, etc) in order for it to be tangible, but something being real does not require it to be tangible.

I think what Grr was trying to say (and (s)he can correct me) was that this Outpost is the first really tangible thing that SF has accomplished. Not that it's the first "real and" tangible thing that SF has accomplished. I think that it's pretty evident when one looks over the history of EVE that SF has accomplished a very large number of very real goals, but this is really the first tangible one that I am aware of.

That does not, mind, make the previous accomplishments less valuable, simply because they are intangibles.

Spot on.  None of Star Fractions past intangible achievements (whatever they are) are any less valuable im sure.  No disrespect is intended at all.

Incidently is there a list of them somewhere that can be read?  I mean a real list not the spin on IGS of course.  I'd be very interested in reading some facts about SF.

[The Cosmopolite]

Dear lord, there's a question.

I hope people won't be too disappointed that (despite all that may be said about our ruthless self-promotion ) we don't have a ready list to hand of our glories.

I'll maybe think about that but I'd not want to engage in too much trumpet-blowing.

I can think of several but putting them into words is another matter. (I also suspect that inevitably some will be open to contest despite the best efforts at avoiding spin.)

Cosmo

[Mizhara]

Cosmo... [mod]snip[/mod] can put together such a list [mod]snip[/mod] And I would actually be very curious to see it as well. Right now, it's so easy to take the achievements and go 'meh, probably overdone and overhyped'.

(This isn't critique, you know as well as I do that this is simple appearance issues, no more.)

[mod]Please no inferred slurs[/mod]

[Lillith Blackheart]

As to Lillith on 'tangible' relating to 'object-oriented' achievements, I don't altogether agree actually.

I'm pretty sure, though, that that's the definition of "tangible".

I would note that as SF has a publicly-confirmed titan (and alliance members were intimately involved in the build logistics of that titan, though I personally don't see direct involvement in the build as necessary to the achievement of acquiring a titan) even on Lillith's working definition the outpost is not the first.

Ahh. I did not know that, then this would make the outpost clearly the second tangible thing. Impressive on both counts, good work guys.

The thing about EVE that is so important (even if at times CCP neglect it a little) is that any alliance, corp, or for that matter individual pilot can achieve great things...

...and if anything it is through roleplay that the greatest of achievements can be attained.

I agree with this. SF has done a lot -- both things that I personally would feel are good, and also a number of things I think were poor form, but accomplishment is accomplishment! I was not aware of the Titan (I've been gone for a year so cut me some slack, hehe), but the Outpost I thought was pretty cool.






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[Syylara/Yaansu]

New toys are always a good thing, best of luck with this and any other infrastructure plans!