Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Kiro Kathora]

Since my initial post here I've been working on the construction of Gallentian, that is, to account for a primordial ancestral language I call Pre-Gallentean (-ean, not -ian). This is namely the foundation, as one of the seven proto-languages mentioned in Evelopedia, of a group of 'modern' languages in the Eve Universe. After that, I will try to work out Proto-Gallentian, as one of the descendants.

First of all I wonder whether to post all my linguistic theorizing here, because I suspect this to be uninteresting to most people. They probably mainly want to see the result, if they care at all. On the other hand, I ought to account for everything I do, otherwise the end result looks whimsical and daft. So, LET ME KNOW! At this moment, I've written about thirty pages full of data about phonology, morphology, lexis, syntax and semantics. Perhaps it is best just to attach Word documents here, because its undoable to post the list with basic vocabulary and so forth.

Its open to feedback, of course.

Here's a líttle taste already.


1.      à              'to/at'   a >   e    e
2.      adulte   'adult' >   adil >   edɪl    edill
3.      arrière   'behind' >   ɑRɛi >   ɑRɛi   arrei
4.      aujourd’hui   'today' >   o:ʒudwi (intransparancy of final morpheme) >   ududwi    ududwi
5.      autre   'other'   > o:t >   ut   ut
6.      avant   'before/in front of' >   ɑvɑi >   ɑvɑi   avvai
7.      avoir   'have' >   ɑva (assimilation v & w) >   ɑve   avve

Syntax:
7000 AD; SOV wordorder
1.   Mah   le   at-eh    lih-eh
   I   the   is-PAST read-PAST
   ‘I was reading it.’

7000 AD; SOV order + postposition
2.   Mah   le   jih   eidibu-eh
   I   the   upon   stand-PAST
   ‘I stood upon it.’

9000 AD; SVO order + postposition (phonological changes not included, in Pre-Gallentaen word forms)
1.   Mah   disirr-er   sevai   dimei   masoi   e.
   I   want-FUT   work   tomorrow   home   at
   ‘I want to work at home tomorrow.’

Pre-Gallentean sentence (original taken from Evelopedia):
‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, libb-taipjoi a wirois gadd-esspih du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’
= ‘Champions of liberty and fierce guardians of the human spirit, the Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden.’


Semantic shift:
maison      >   masoi      ‘house’ (refers to the building)
chez moi   >   tam      ‘at home/at my own place’
domicile   >   dumis      ‘residence/address
bâtiment   >   bhattimmai   ‘building’
édifice       >   idiffiss      ‘building’

It is not that hard to imagine that space travel and the colonization of alien planets can easily give new meanings to those words. The result is a gap in the paradigm, ‘at home’, which will be filled in via an internal formation.

masoi      ‘building’ (suitable to live in)
tam      ‘house’
dumis      ‘home-planet’
bhattimmai   ‘construction’ (building in general)
idiffiss       ‘complex of structures’ (compound)
atam      ‘at home’


**SEE ATTACHMENTS FOR ALL THE DATA**

[Seriphyn]

"Le Gallente Widerratoi, libb-taipjoi a wirois gadd-esspih du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden."

Fantastic! But what about modern Gallentean? I don't think nothing should stop you from making it, as people have done so for the Caldari language et al. I would love to see something else other than 'Bonjour' to say, sort of like the mixture of Greek/Romance you got going on there (at least, the 'dimukas' bit I spot).

Don't worry if you don't get much interest in actually constructing the language (I'm not a linguist so couldn't help). As soon as you get around to any 'publication', people will start using it, and it'll become common. Assuming you go for modern (my vote!) instead of proto.

[Kiro Kathora]

Oh, but I certainly will do that. As a matter of fact, I'm aiming for Modern Gallentian, but I want to provide a historical foundation for it. This allows future people/fans to create 'related' languages quite easily ánd in a linguistically correct way.

The Roman/Greek like 'colour' you spot is probably because I structurally derrived Pre-Gallentean from modern French on the one hand, and because I was inspired by ancient Greek on the other. It is hence not derrived from Greek, but 'looks' like it in a small way.

Anyhow, thank you!

[Publius Valerius]

Pre-Gallentean sentence (original taken from Evelopedia):
‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, libb-taipjoi a wirois gadd-esspih du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’
= ‘Champions of liberty and fierce guardians of the human spirit, the Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden.’


- Le Gallente Widerratoi at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.
The Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden.

- Libb-taipjoi a wirois gadd-esspih du immei,
Liberty-champions and fierce guardians-spirit (gardien d'esprit? Les Gardiens de l'esprit?) of the human[ s ]/humanity (I think immei is humanité?).

Also a small question:"Le Gallente Widerratoi" or "Le Widerratoi du gallente"?

Could I say: Le Widerratoi du gallente, libb-taipjoi a wirois gaddeur (gardeur) du immei, le Widerratoi at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden?
Champions of liberty and fierce keeper/guardian of humanity, the Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden?

[Kiro Kathora]

Oops, I was so focussed on details that I actually got blinded by it. I forgot the plural suffix! 

It should be: ‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, taipjois-libbs a wirois esspihs-gadds du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’
Meaning: ‘Champions of liberty and fierce guardians of the human spirit, the Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden.’

I was thinking about dimukas as a word that always stands in plural, because it refers to a group. Perhaps something for a latter stage.

Could I say: Le Widerratoi du gallente, libb-taipjoi a wirois gaddeur (gardeur) du immei, le Widerratoi at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden?

No, not according to my grammar. The case is, that Pre-Gallentean shifted towards an SVO-pattern, with adjectives standing in front of the modified nouns. Hence the altered construction of the word group 'gardiens de l'esprit' into 'esprit-gardiens'.
However, I'm still pondering about all possible constructions. I did keep 'gaddeur du immei', but the noun has a transitive character, so there should be a separate object: one always guards something; one isn't a something-guard. Anyhow, I'm working on it.

Your etymologies are correct.

[Publius Valerius]

Oops, I was so focussed on details that I actually got blinded by it. I forgot the plural suffix! 

It should be: ‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, taipjois-libbs a wirois esspihs-gadds du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’
Meaning: ‘Champions of liberty and fierce guardians of the human spirit, the Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden.’

I was thinking about dimukas as a word that always stands in plural, because it refers to a group. Perhaps something for a latter stage.

Could I say: Le Widerratoi du gallente, libb-taipjoi a wirois gaddeur (gardeur) du immei, le Widerratoi at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden?

No, not according to my grammar. The case is, that Pre-Gallentean shifted towards an SVO-pattern, with adjectives standing in front of the modified nouns. Hence the altered construction of the word group 'gardiens de l'esprit' into 'esprit-gardiens'.
However, I'm still pondering about all possible constructions. I did keep 'gaddeur du immei', but the noun has a transitive character, so there should be a separate object: one always guards something; one isn't a something-guard. Anyhow, I'm working on it.

Your etymologies are correct.

Oh thanks  .....  totally over saw the SVO.

About the word group "gadd-esspih du immei". I wasnt sure, thats why I had try to change it to "gaddeur du immei"  . So "Les Gardiens de l'esprit" it is , meaning "esspihs-gadds du immei" (is great, I think... slowly I get it.). By the way... my comment here still stands... plz help us amarr  .

[Kiro Kathora]

I made a decision about that specific structure. In my 'booklet' I wrote:

"Another alteration is the way compounds are formed. In French the head (leading part of the noun) comes first, followed by the specifying part and even a particle in between, e.g. vaisseau spatial ‘space ship’, gardien de l’esprit humaine ‘guardiens of the spirit of human kind’. Besides, forming compounds is not always possible in English either, as the latter example shows. Anyhow, in Pre-Gallentean this changes, along the lines of the SVO-order. Compounds are now structured as ‘spatial-vaisseau’ and ‘humaine esprit-gardien’, immei esspih-gadd. However, it is important to note that clauses like immei esspih-gadd are never to be interpreted as ‘human guardians of the spirit’. In this construction human would be a specifier of the compound as such, instead of an integrated part of it:

1) [guardian of the spirit of humans] versus 2) [human [guardian of the spirit]] decision 

The adjective as a specifier of a compound noun has specific morphology in Pre-Gallentean, namely –com [kɔm], derived from the French adverb comme (‘like’, similarity). Hence specifying a compound like esspih-gadd would be immeicom esspih-gadd.

Let's see and wait how long this set of rules remains intact. 

[Publius Valerius]

I made a decision about that specific structure. In my 'booklet' I wrote:

"Another alteration is the way compounds are formed. In French the head (leading part of the noun) comes first, followed by the specifying part and even a particle in between, e.g. vaisseau spatial ‘space ship’, gardien de l’esprit humaine ‘guardiens of the spirit of human kind’. Besides, forming compounds is not always possible in English either, as the latter example shows. Anyhow, in Pre-Gallentean this changes, along the lines of the SVO-order. Compounds are now structured as ‘spatial-vaisseau’ and ‘humaine esprit-gardien’, immei esspih-gadd. However, it is important to note that clauses like immei esspih-gadd are never to be interpreted as ‘human guardians of the spirit’. In this construction human would be a specifier of the compound as such, instead of an integrated part of it:

1) [guardian of the spirit of humans] versus 2) [human [guardian of the spirit]] decision 

The adjective as a specifier of a compound noun has specific morphology in Pre-Gallentean, namely –com [kɔm], derived from the French adverb comme (‘like’, similarity). Hence specifying a compound like esspih-gadd would be immeicom esspih-gadd.

Let's see and wait how long this set of rules remains intact. 

You have a 'booklet'? Damn I feel stupid  . I have to see the other topics as well  .


Ehm about.... gardien de l’esprit humain .... I would say: gardiens de l'esprit humain (as gardien in singular could be shorten to noun: "gardien d'esprit" (as gardien d'animaux), or in english "guardian of the spirit", or it will be more clear in german: Der Traumwächter. So I would like to use: esspihs-gadds du immei aka guardians of the spirit of humans; as I think it will be easier to use for the most people around (as I have also use/understood it that way here).

Also my french is very bad. even worse then my english  . So Im for that a "adverb - intensité" (comme) isnt in use... by the way, I would us more a "wie ein", "comme un".... so: "immeicom [un] wirois* esspih-gadd" (If you dont use [les] wirois* "esspihs-gadds" <plural>).
 But just my 50 cents, I will roll with any outcome  .


Edit: Fixed humain.
*Edit 2: Add "fierce" so that "adverb - intensité" makes sence again . Sorry about that.

[Adreena Madeveda]

If I may :
"Gardiens de l'esprit humain", not "humaine".

[Publius Valerius]

If I may :
"Gardiens de l'esprit humain", not "humaine".

Oh yeah!... Sorry I fix it, and thanks  .

[Publius Valerius]

Oops, I was so focussed on details that I actually got blinded by it. I forgot the plural suffix! 

It should be: ‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, taipjois-libbs a wirois esspihs-gadds du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’
Meaning: ‘Champions of liberty and fierce guardians of the human spirit, the Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden.’

A small question about the "a" as you had first singular:

Pre-Gallentean sentence (original taken from Evelopedia):
‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, libb-taipjoi a wirois gadd-esspih du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’
= ‘Champions of liberty and fierce guardians of the human spirit, the Gallente Federation is the only true democracy in New Eden.’

So would be "un" in your case "a", become les?

‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, taipjois-libbs a les wirois esspihs-gadds du immei, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’ and/or ‘Le Gallente Widerratoi, taipjois-libbs a mmeicom les wirois esspihs-gadds, at le joi ri dimukas e New Eden.’

Nevermind....see now "a" is "and", stupid me.

[Kiro Kathora]

A little patience, until I think this grammar 'booklet'/overview is well enough to post it here and clutter the forum up with it. 

[Publius Valerius]

A little patience, until I think this grammar 'booklet'/overview is well enough to post it here and clutter the forum up with it. 

A little patience = Un "peu de patience"= Un "patsions-pœ"=


Un patsions-poe. In proto-gallente? (as I havent found a nice french "ö" IPA, maybe "w"? . As you can see above I use two links.).

[Kiro Kathora]

  I've got a list in which I describe phonological changes step by step towards Pre-Gallentean and beyond. That list generates subjoined utterance. However, this is more or less a litteral translation of modern French, and I'm not sure whether to keep things like this the same after millennia of language change...

'un peu de patience'  → ‘un foi fattais’
[yn pø də pɑšɑ͂:ns]      [un fɔi fɑtɑis]

By the way, if you like this stuff, you can download an IPA font and install it so you can use it in MS Word and paste it in here. That's what I do all the time.
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=encore-ipa-download

[Publius Valerius]

I've got a list in which I describe phonological changes step by step towards Pre-Gallentean and beyond. That list generates subjoined utterance. However, this is more or less a litteral translation of modern French, and I'm not sure whether to keep things like this the same after millennia of language change...

'un peu de patience'  → ‘un foi fattais’
[yn pø də pɑšɑ͂:ns]      [un fɔi fɑtɑis]

By the way, if you like this stuff, you can download an IPA font and install it so you can use it in MS Word and paste it in here. That's what I do all the time.
http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=encore-ipa-download

I can wait, no problem. I just thought to speed things up, so that we come faster to amarrad . You know  , the only thing whats keeping me here (just joking). By the way, as I havent said it before.... GREAT JOB, AND IT WILL A GREAT TASK. I think it will help to make some stuff more interesting and juicy. I could think of one or two D&D games which I could use with it. So, that character one and two can talk in the same room/area, without that a third character understands the chat between the two etc.....