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[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Regarding the POS suggestion.

Who needs them? Just use a suitable NPC station as your base. Then when you are inevitably camped into it you can get all sorts of fun sending a force to break the camp and let out your industrials full of whatever macguffin it is you are fighting over. As I recall EM once had a lol-Blooder antagonist (Darth Sage) who used to do this sort of thing using homeless-type passengers as his tokens. Unfortunately Darth Sage (& Onion) lacked the numbers to be a decent challenge. That said I think he was executing an extended parody of Revan rather than actually trying to be a threat.

Come to that I remember CAIN getting pissed at us & coming to play. We had a lot of fun with that. We also had a lot of fun stocking their base station with munitions & making a profit off their campaign on us. 

[Leopold Caine]

Regarding the POS suggestion.

Who needs them? Just use a suitable NPC station as your base.

Using a Republic Fleet station for a campaign that involves kidnapping slaves from the Republic does seem a bit, if not illogical very immersion breaking.
Again, this is another good example of Louella's RP hats point from previous page.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Regarding the POS suggestion.

Who needs them? Just use a suitable NPC station as your base.

Using a Republic Fleet station for a campaign that involves kidnapping slaves from the Republic does seem a bit, if not illogical very immersion breaking.
Again, this is another good example of Louella's RP hats point from previous page.

So use an Amarrian station. Imperial Armements has stations in the Republic amongst others.

Or, if you want to be consistent with the related missions, use a Caldari station. That way you could even stay Imperial legal as the Amarrians aren't actually capturing the slaves.

Or find another macguffin to fight over. As long as it can be put in a cargo hold and moved it is usable.

[Esna Pitoojee]

There's another thing which I thought of while writing my reply to the offshoot thread ("Macguffins and Magnets"):

Since a lot of the most PvP-oriented RP corps and RPers have gone through FW at some point, they are now saddled with standings which prevent them from even entering another factions' highsec (or at least, not without hordes of NPC Navy spawning). This presents a huge discouragement into making noise in other peoples' space - you're not only fighting them, you're fighting endlessly respawning waves of NPCs as well.  Neutral space exists, but represents a fraction of the available regions (and may be difficult for some parties to reach).

[Leopold Caine]

I think the basic issue with that is that CCP likes to keep its story and game mechanics as separated as possible, probably out of fear they'll somehow damage the fine tuned balancing system they've been working on for the last year or so.

Whilst the sandbox mechanics are flexible and all, they still have their own set of rules which are not followed to pace with the story and vice versa, the gameplay taking priority; this is why you can't go and improvise much outside of given  frames without making a lot of compromise on either side, which eventually leaves one with a somewhat bitter aftertaste.

[Merdaneth]

Since a lot of the most PvP-oriented RP corps and RPers have gone through FW at some point, they are now saddled with standings which prevent them from even entering another factions' highsec (or at least, not without hordes of NPC Navy spawning). This presents a huge discouragement into making noise in other peoples' space - you're not only fighting them, you're fighting endlessly respawning waves of NPCs as well.  Neutral space exists, but represents a fraction of the available regions (and may be difficult for some parties to reach).

Very true. Which is why at some point I stopped doing missions or shooting NPCs in FW. I don't want that option taken away from me.

If I'm legally enlisted in the militia, then I'm not breaking any laws by attacking the opponent, the why treat my as an outlaw after I leave the militia? Just doesn't make sense.

[Lyn Farel]

Since a lot of the most PvP-oriented RP corps and RPers have gone through FW at some point, they are now saddled with standings which prevent them from even entering another factions' highsec (or at least, not without hordes of NPC Navy spawning). This presents a huge discouragement into making noise in other peoples' space - you're not only fighting them, you're fighting endlessly respawning waves of NPCs as well.  Neutral space exists, but represents a fraction of the available regions (and may be difficult for some parties to reach).

I have been in FW for more than 3 years and have plexed quite a lot. Not as much as the crazy plexers like 1PG or some PIE pilots in the first days or some others, but enough to be in the top VP tier on 1PG killboards for a while.

I have also run since I started eve a shitload of standard L4s before that and even during FW, most of them for Amarr. Even when I was in Providence (2007) my only income came from L4s and the new LP system that was very profitable. Most of the time I also ran the missions against gallente, minmatar, or even caldari NPCs, which was not very good for my standings. I have stopped now, ofc, but I still used to do it until I left FW and started to change my mind regarding my standings.

So, in the end, I still have never been barred from any other faction territory, except through FW mechanisms. The worst I got was with the Republic (around -8.2 raw) mostly due to FW consequences, which obliged me to skill up diplomacy V. But after 3 years of plexing I have always been surprised not to be lower. In any case, when I left FW I was still able to go in Republic space with my -8 standings and diplomacy V, putting me slightly above -5 (-4.7 effective).

However I know some people that have terrible standings for any reason and can't really fix that easily, even through missions, because running L1 missions until you get a positive standing with the faction is a nightmare. Same for me, I did not choose to do that, it is just silly or masochist.

But you have several good options left :

- Running missions for a secondary faction to gain indirect faction standings with the factions whose standings you want to fix. SOE, for example. Works not bad since fixing very bad standings goes A LOT quicker than upping positive standings.

- Running COSMOS ? Not tried yet, and requires standings for some.

- Running epic arcs. This is the win solution imo. I recently ran again the SOE noob arc and choose the republic agent at the end. It gives you +8% standings. It is something like 0.25 or 0.50 when you are at 0 iirc. Here, it gave me above +1.0 standings. Now, keep in mind that's just the noob epic arc that gives 8%. The L4 epic arcs give +12%. I ran the gallente one and got incredible standing boosts, to the point with doing it twice + running SOE + running the SOE noob arc in the first place made me go from -6 (raw) to +1.0. All of this, without any opposite factions  standing losses.

So yeah, I would say that once out of FW, it is not very hard to fix standing issues really.

[BloodBird]

Avoiding lock-out from specific High-Sec factions is absurdly easy, even if you run missions - decline any and all missions that involve killing/opposing the other Empires. As long as you only mission against pirate factions (their space is 0.0 anyway) your fine.

[Merdaneth]

Avoiding lock-out from specific High-Sec factions is absurdly easy, even if you run missions - decline any and all missions that involve killing/opposing the other Empires. As long as you only mission against pirate factions (their space is 0.0 anyway) your fine.

I've found it absurdly hard. After only a few months in EVE I started doing what you say, but if your Amarr faction standing climbs higher the other standings will go lower and lower. At some point I had to avoid all storyline missions (this was years ago), had to train diplomacy to V and had to grind for SoE to raise my Republic standing to above -5 adjusted.

Honestly: no opposing missions after a few months of EVE, no storyline missions shortly after I joined PIE (5 years ago), no FW missions for over 2 years, and no more shooting NPCs in plexes if I can help it, and I'm still hovering near the abyss and needing to grind SoE.

[Bastian Valoron]

"Why is there this intermittent preference for hunting non-RPers in a corp's comfort zone, rather than leaving it to fight RPers?".

Unless you pick your associates and enemies carefully, using their ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality as your main criterion, most of the time will go to dealing with IC/OOC bleed over and OOC drama, either internally, externally or both. If the war targets are chosen using only IC motivations, it might be possible to push it through with enough OOC assurances that it is all role-playing and your purpose is just to have fun, but since this should be self-evident and for the grand majority it is not, I'm not convinced that any amount of meta gaming really helps with this issue.

[Matariki Rain]

"Why is there this intermittent preference for hunting non-RPers in a corp's comfort zone, rather than leaving it to fight RPers?".

... because in most cases it makes more sense for our immersive RP to do that.

I don't see the problem. (I suspect that that might be part of what you'd see as the problem. )

[Kybernetes Moros]

... because in most cases it makes more sense for our immersive RP to do that.

I don't see the problem. (I suspect that that might be part of what you'd see as the problem. )

Mm, my question was more geared towards when there are solid reasons to go after the RPers beyond "lol let's make RP" when I wrote it, but granted I didn't actually make that plain.

Something I've been wondering recently is if wholly immersive RP is always the best approach. People have complained of "RP feeling like a lot of closed circles all muttering to each other, with a sea of public derp between them" in the past.

Edit: Realised that I should make that second sentence "...the best approach for me". Ultimately, if others enjoy themselves, cool, let them carry on.

[Saede Riordan]

... because in most cases it makes more sense for our immersive RP to do that.

I don't see the problem. (I suspect that that might be part of what you'd see as the problem. )

Mm, my question was more geared towards when there are solid reasons to go after the RPers beyond "lol let's make RP" when I wrote it, but granted I didn't actually make that plain.

Something I've been wondering recently is if wholly immersive RP is always the best approach. People have complained of "RP feeling like a lot of closed circles all muttering to each other, with a sea of public derp between them" in the past.

Yeah, I can agree with this, I feel like I've been enjoying the game more since I started doing RP-lite

[Matariki Rain]

Something I've been wondering recently is if wholly immersive RP is always the best approach.

It's a fair question to ask, although I wonder about the motivation for asking. How many people actually do wholly immersive RP? Would those people still play and contribute in more flourishy ways to EVE RP if they didn't do immersive RP?

My impression has always been that there's very little wholly immersive RP in EVE, so it doesn't move the "centre" of things much. It's possible that that's just because I see it through Evanda Char's position document for EM. As she expressed it, there were plenty of places in EVE for RP-lite, and very few alliances (possibly down to only one) for immersive RP, so protecting the immersive RP environment of EM did take priority over most other things.

People have complained of "RP feeling like a lot of closed circles all muttering to each other, with a sea of public derp between them" in the past.

Y'know, my impression is that some of the closed circles have really interesting characters (and players) in them, and that there are often immersive reasons why they can't play together much.

Which is why I'm a bit sadfaec about Aldrith leaving, since Mata was just starting to build bridges through teasing and nicknaming there. (Yes, sometimes hair-pulling really is a sign of interest.)

[Lyn Farel]

Immersionnist RP often makes people leave, but I couldnt think of another way to RP.

It just feels a little tasteless or often artificial/made up otherwise.