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[Tiberious Thessalonia]

No no, I think the last little bit has been a bit off topic, myself.  The original post had nothing to do with slavery (and more to do with keeping our hands off of transhuman strangeness).  It has since become a bit of a talk about what we can do to make the Summit a better place to RP in.  The slavery thing came in there, and kind of ate up everything else.

It does tend to do that.

Basically:  What else should we keep our hands off of.

[Lyn Farel]

The Slave argument has plagued many channels too be honest. It simply comes down too whether or not the Holder and the Slave can both conduct themselves according too the channels declared and undeclared  rules of conduct. In short you wouldn't see a sane homosexual flaunt his life style at a Klan meeting,so why advertise the fact you're a slave holder in a setting that is mostly composed of Matari and their allies?

Now I will be the first person too decry Eve's lack of true hard boiled villains, but another old and tired saying that I think we should keep in mind is "Don't feed the Trolls"!  I will assume that most of us are functioning adults and that for the most part we all role play functioning adults who are experienced in dealing with a certain degree of douchebagery. So I think it's pretty safe too say that we can all tell if someone is genuinely trying too be a troll as opposed too legitimately representing their life style/belief system.

Playing a villain (which most consider Holders too be) in RP is like navigating a minefield, in some channels you can be yourself but in others your very presence may be considered trolling or being an attention seeker (Pretty sure if Hardin and Archbishop showed up in a UK or EM RP channel it wouldn't go over well), despite whatever their actions or reasons for being there are.

So I think in this case it should be something treated on a case by case basis. If we don't have people too give us something too talk about then its just a bunch of self important, opinionated, asses bunched together doing nothing but talking about the weather or gossiping like old biddies who agree with one another on everything. Aimless bitter vet rant OVER!!!

First I want to say that I agree 100% with you on the fact that we are adults (I guess ?) and should be able to tell if someone is genuinely trolling or not.

However, I thought the Summit was supposed to be a - more or less - neutral ground for everyone ? We are not on an EM or UK channel, where slavers would get a hard time. It is too easy to call the slavers the cause, again. It is mostly about people being butthurt about things that the universe condone, and breaking the rules of conduct of the Summit itself. Lyn, too could be an asshole and start yelling at freedom fighters and all emo minmatar that want to burn the Empire that show up everyday here. Lyn, too, could insult people that show up and boast about how it is pleasant to kill amarrians because after all, nobody likes them. It is easy to be offended over anything. It does not mean that it is an excuse for everything.

And Lyn is not even an amarrian loyalist, so I do not even want to put myself in the shoes of Amarrians or Cartel dudes, because no, I do not think this channel is really fair in its current iteration.

[Graanvlokkie]

I find myself looking for the "+1" or "Like" button on each of Lyn's posts.

[Esna Pitoojee]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Lucian's post. To emphasize something here, I'm going to repost something from the OP where the "slave rule" was mentioned.

• "No parading of slaves."

Parading. We are not banning people for having slaves. We are not banning people for using slaves in their RP. What we are attempting to cut down on here is an unfortunate tendency to have a good running conversation and then suddenly a cliched slave or slaveholding character (PC or NPC) gets thrown  around the channel, instantly destroying all running conversation and turning it all into a big pile of rabble.

[Z.Sinraali]

Basically:  What else should we keep our hands off of.

My power supply.

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

Is your power supply stupid drama?

[Khloe]

Banning slave characters seems rather silly to me, primarily because I feel that individual players should be judged on their own actions. Ultimately, the behavior of the players behind the character disrupting the channel needs to be curbed or controlled, and make it clear that they cannot hide behind IC behavior to ruin everyone's fun.

[Lyn Farel]

Parading. We are not banning people for having slaves. We are not banning people for using slaves in their RP. What we are attempting to cut down on here is an unfortunate tendency to have a good running conversation and then suddenly a cliched slave or slaveholding character (PC or NPC) gets thrown  around the channel, instantly destroying all running conversation and turning it all into a big pile of rabble.

This is what I do not understand. Why does it turn it all into a big pile of rabble ? Why seeing a slave in a background does somehow instantly ruin a decent conversation ?

I would be tempted to answer "because someone has to step out of that decent conversation and starts being a jerk about slavery". Or what do you exactly mean by "cliched" ? Do you have examples in mind ?

[Lucian Alucard]

Absolutely correct Lynn that The Summit is SUPPOSED too be a neutral meeting ground in which all people can meet and discuss things with a semblance of maturity and depth. But the true spirit of any organization or really any collection of people in general is dictated by the make up of said inhabitants. In other words it maybe a neutral place for all too converse. But if the bulk of the ACTIVE player base are pro Fed/Republic then the channel becomes such, just lacking the tendency  too have "witch hunts" due too moderators.

This all just brings too mind the days when there was a massive anti-furry sentiment amongst many of the people who are most active in the channel and here. This didn't change until T.E.A. came out and body modders were added into the mix. Now there is a begrudging acceptance of said rp style if it isn't over the top and again they follow the rules of conduct.

So too summarize this all I shall reiterate Wheatons Law; "Don't Be a Dick!" .......that's what I am here for!

[Silas Vitalia]

Drama-llamas will find ways to shit on channels regardless of any specific bans.  From channel bombing self-flagellating bdsm alts to parading slave alts on collars to pity-party channel emo fests, it's gonna happen one way or another.

Blanket bans won't work.

Channel needs to stop being as rule-driven and enforce a strict "I don't like the cut of your jib" banhammer policy.  People will behave themselves once the kicking starts in earnest.  Sometimes not being given a specific reason can do more to make people RP nice than specific rules they can bitch and moan and whine around ad nauseum.

Stop being nice, load up your hair-trigger t2 ban hammers with faction ammo.

[Silas Vitalia]

I think the 'i just don't like the way you are acting' can be pure IC as well, as your characters are human and are 'moderators' and can justifiably be annoyed IC with idiocy and kick accordingly.  I think it quite alright to be less clinical about the rules and more 'in the spirit of the rules' regarding what you guys put up with and don't put up with.

[Lyn Farel]

I like your view. It is... interesting, wouldnt have thought about it like that.

I think the 'i just don't like the way you are acting' can be pure IC as well, as your characters are human and are 'moderators' and can justifiably be annoyed IC with idiocy and kick accordingly.  I think it quite alright to be less clinical about the rules and more 'in the spirit of the rules' regarding what you guys put up with and don't put up with.

They are already acting like that sometimes.

[Silas Vitalia]

I just think there might be some cart leading the horse here with all the navel gazing about rule-specifics and bans, not seeing the forest for the trees.  Not trying to be negative but I might be wierd and see these issues as very black and white.

IE only one question needed "Is this character's behavior contributing to an interesting or productive RP channel? and enriching our experience?"

Notice I didn't say 'pleasant' or 'conflict free' as that's important too.

If yes, keep on keepin' on.
If no, kick and they can mail you if they want clarification, but 0 tolerance for channel shitting should apply 100% of time.

[Casiella]

Silas, what about the issue of a moderator deciding "wrongly"?

[Silas Vitalia]

Silas, what about the issue of a moderator deciding "wrongly"?

I don't think it's an issue.  Moderators are given those powers by the channel owner as a sign of good judgement.  If it's a constant problem of poor judgement as determined by the channel owner then they should re-assign and move on.

Remember we aren't talking about losing huge game assets or being podded, we're talking about being removed from an RP comm-channel for a short period of time.

I'd rather things err on the side of caution and a few RPers get their precious feelings hurt now and then, than have people on that edge all the time and annoying the hell out of 30 other people on a regular basis.