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Author Topic: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure  (Read 17943 times)

Ulphus

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #30 on: 27 Jun 2012, 15:00 »

It's not that I'm assuming they don't have an understanding of how it works, it's that a lot of what is said against the State by others in RP is either grossly exaggerated or finds its roots at completely ignoring (or being ignorant of) why the State functions as it does or how it actually functions.

Welcome to my RP life. The above can be said while replacing "State" with either "Federation", "Republic" or "Empire".

Pretty much this. I look at the real world, and an enormous amount of what people use to criticise things they don't like has very little basis in fact, from politics to religion, global warming to drug policy... people quite often have strong, loud opinions about things based on incorrect (or at least questionable) facts. It's just how people work.

So I'm not sure that posting about it OOC is going to make much difference, nor am I sure that it should.
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Ken

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #31 on: 27 Jun 2012, 17:49 »

Alright, tried the triangle idea:

« Last Edit: 27 Jun 2012, 19:48 by Ken »
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Victoria Stecker

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #32 on: 27 Jun 2012, 18:12 »

Holy fucking Ken.
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #33 on: 27 Jun 2012, 18:29 »

Wow, now that's impressive stuff!

I really like the "extensions" outside the triangle with the gradient, it certainly speaks to a spectrum of beliefs outside of the 3 strict definitions.

My only suggestions are for the white (practical) area inside the triangle to be a little more dominant as it can be easy to see the whole thing as a red-to-blue sweep.  That's minor and nit-picky however :9.  The only major issue I see is the "Disassociated" description text is hard to read against the black, though I can understand you were running out of distinct colors to use for keeping them matched to their appropriate visual reference in the graphic.  Perhaps a lighter shade of grey so it will pop a bit.
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Ken

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #34 on: 27 Jun 2012, 18:31 »

Wow, now that's impressive stuff!

Thanks! :)

The only major issue I see is the "Disassociated" description text is hard to read against the black, though I can understand you were running out of distinct colors to use for keeping them matched to their appropriate visual reference in the graphic.  Perhaps a lighter shade of grey so it will pop a bit.

Actually, that is working as intended.  ;)
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Silver Night

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #35 on: 27 Jun 2012, 19:31 »

That's awesome, Ken.

Down in the description for Provists, you have 'instituded', btw.

It seems like a lot of the talk about company contracts sounds a bit dry. It occurs to me that signing on with the corporation is probably a major right of passage, and a big event (to a greater or lesser degree, perhaps depending on your corporation).

As far as the structure of the State, I think the main takeaway (which has been covered pretty well) is that the 'State' (at least before Heth, maybe a little less-so now) is largely just the foreign policy arm of the Big 8. It's their interface for dealing with outside sovereignties, more than an internal government. For example, it's a bit telling that the highest Caldari court deals exclusively with inter-corporate cases, and the CEP, the State's ruling body, is literally just the CEOs of the Big 8.

Matariki Rain

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #36 on: 27 Jun 2012, 19:39 »

What's your status if you're employed by an organization that's not (directly) one of the Big Eight? Say you sign on with the Mercantile Club or the House of Records.
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Ken

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #37 on: 27 Jun 2012, 19:53 »

That's awesome, Ken.

Down in the description for Provists, you have 'instituded', btw.

Thank you, fixed.

What's your status if you're employed by an organization that's not (directly) one of the Big Eight? Say you sign on with the Mercantile Club or the House of Records.

I've always looked at the national-level institutions as drawing their workforce from the megas on temporary or permanent contracts.  One may be a Kaalakiota citizen, bound to KK by a life-contract, but their day-to-day job is to work as an impartial paralegal for the CBT.  I'm also inclined to see the Caldari Navy as using a regimental system whereby entire units are pulled whole from each of the various Big Eight forces for pre-determined tours of duty.
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Silver Night

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #38 on: 27 Jun 2012, 20:27 »

Could also see the 'shared' institutions like the Navy or even the others being one of the few ways for 'disassociated' people to have better lives, or improve their station. That's basically the backstory of one of my alts, now that I think about it.

Edit: Though still a tough path, without the built in connections that someone coming from a corporate background might enjoy.

Hamish Grayson

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #39 on: 27 Jun 2012, 21:19 »

I made this some time ago based on the old stock ownership info.

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Hamish Grayson

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #40 on: 27 Jun 2012, 21:22 »

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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #41 on: 27 Jun 2012, 21:29 »

Evelopedia stuff:

The Chief Executive Panel is a political entity jointly owned and run by the Caldari megacorporations. The CEOs of the mega corporations sit on the board of the Panel and make sure the mega corporations don't go overboard in competing with each other, smoothing over potential conflicts before they escalate out of control. The Panel also handles the foreign policy of the Caldari State. It is the closest thing to a Caldari government as there ever will be.

The Chief Executive Panel is the main bureaucratic apparatus through which the Caldari megacorporations rule the State. The Panel's primary purposes are to determine the budgets for the State's few government agencies, such as the Navy and the Tribunal, and to act as a way for the State's corporate powers to coordinate national policy, such as foreign relations, customs and trade regulations, and inter-corporate business laws.

The Panel itself consists of the major megacorporate CEOs and a non-partisan director. In reality, the CEOs usually send a delegation of trusted executives, corporate lawyers, or board members to represent the corporation's interests on the Panel, and the director is nothing more than a figurehead, a pawn of the most influential political bloc at the time.

Though the State Executor and the Caldari Providence Directorate exert a great deal of influence over the Executive Panel since its creation in 110YC, the CEP must endorse the policies of both groups in order to make them law. So far, however, there have been few substantive challenges to proposed initiatives.

The Caldari Business Tribunal is the inter-corporate justice system of the Caldari State.

The Caldari are not wont to bicker over lost deals or ruthless competition, but when they do, this is the place they come to. The tribunal is the only organization within the Caldari State authorized to cancel deals or agreements made between companies.

The Caldari Business Tribunal is the only non-corporate justice system and police agency in the Caldari State, tasked with policing the megacorporations and their disputes. The main function of the Tribunal is to provide a nonviolent means for corporations to resolve grievances, as outright inter-corporate war tends to do significant damage to corporate bottom lines. Tribunal justices are appointed by the Chief Executive Panel, and many appointees are corporate lawyers or security executives prior to their nomination. Additionally, Tribunal investigators are among the few people in the State who are ostensibly free of corporate loyalties.

The Tribunal's courts are modeled after the Raata Code, an inquisitorial system where the court's goal is to determine the facts of the case, not the prosecution of an individual or corporation. Tribunal agents have the authority, in theory, to enter any corporate facility and confiscate corporate property, provided that a warrant is issued by a Tribunal justice; in reality, agents are often delayed by corporate legal teams and stymied by corporate security. This situation varies depending on how much political power the corporation driving the investigation can wield.

The Tribunal does not generally deal with crimes against the person and is not the “Supreme Court” of the Caldari State, as many outsiders assume. Most criminal prosecutions, such as those for murder or embezzlement, are handled by megacorporate justice systems, and they cannot appeal to the Tribunal. The only time the Tribunal deals with such cases is when they are committed by or against government officials, or when asked to resolve a question of jurisdiction.

Quote from: Matariki Rain
What's your status if you're employed by an organization that's not (directly) one of the Big Eight? Say you sign on with the Mercantile Club or the House of Records.

This is an area where my character's backstory is centered, so I've dug around a few times over the years.

As to your specific examples: The Mercantile Club seems mostly just like an "old boy's network" type social club (especially with its history as more of a "gentleman's club"), in my skeptical mind, I tend to see the kind of place where those in power plan out among themselves how to slice the pie up.  However, that's just my take since my dorm in college was right next door to The Chicago Club in the south loop and I had a friend who worked there that fed me all kinds of dirt.

The House of Records seems something like a cross between the Library of Congress and a giant accounting firm along with a dash of Congressional Budget Office (offers testimony and analysis of decisions being mulled over).  The CBO is theoretically maintained as a nonpartisan agency, though of course this doesn't stop politicians from praising their impartiality one week and then dismissing them as unreliable the next depending on whether their reviews align with some policy position they have.

The Tribunal is certainly a legal body, but remains limited only to civil disputes rather than criminal prosecution.  Its justices seem to have a similar authority to a judge who is overseeing a suit or other matter being settled by arbitration, conciliation, mediation, etc.  As the Evelopedia states, justices are appointed by the CEP, though it doesn't mention any term lengths or method of recall/impeachment.

I imagine something of a hierarchy as follows:  Senior Justices assign matters to Associate Justices, deciding how many will sit on the case and which specific personnel.  This involves a lot of political consideration in terms of appointing impartial oversight (or a broad range of opinions to achieve such), even the number of Justices involved can be taken as a subtle statement of importance.  The Associate Justices then authorize subpoenas and warrants for testimony or evidence.  These are acted upon by investigators who are assigned to a given matter as needed.  Each investigator has a team of agents at their disposal.  I'd think there would be a degree of specialization among these investigative units as to what kinds of disputes they are most suited to focus on along with some more complicated matters having an occasional "detail" put together to address the specific mixture of issues on larger or more scandalous cases that may have more public spotlight.

My thinking behind all of this is that an incentive structure is in place where advancement, being dependent on appointment from the CEP, is based (at least in part) on not being too partisan.  Say a former SuVee Executive Counsel or KK Chief Security Officer are appointed as justices, if they remain loyal to their former employers and rule in their favor frequently, they'll likely never get a nod from the representatives of other corporations at the CEP.  They may also find themselves bogged down in undesirable minutiae-laden casework, insulated from cases involving their former mega, censure or outright removal from office (whether any of these things exist or not...unknown :9).

Anyways, those are some of my views on the State-wide bodies.

As far as contracts go, I'd imagine one of two things:

At-will employment without contracts.  My reasoning being that corporations tend to benefit from this arrangement as it keeps the populace divided and competing amongst each other for labor.  This has an overall depressive effect on wages.  Obviously the exceptions start coming as you reach beyond middle management or certain work sectors when no-compete, non-disclosure and other agreements start to become important.

Use of contracts, but a widely accepted practice of corporations "buying" contracts out when they want certain personnel.  An employee might convince another mega to buy them up so they can move over or perhaps a mega is abandoning a given market initiative and puts whole blocks of employees up for other megas to make use of.
« Last Edit: 27 Jun 2012, 21:34 by Syylara/Yaansu »
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Silver Night

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #42 on: 27 Jun 2012, 22:47 »

Syylara, my view of it has always been that corporations serve a cultural purpose at least as much as a business one. As part of that, I have always felt that publicly, and as a general situation, (that is, what people view as the 'normal' employee-corporation relationship) involves a social contract between employee and company. Keeping in mind that these are not just businesses, but also essentially governments in and of themselves, from a local, to a planetary and interplanetary level.

So, as long as you take care of the corporations (uphold its interests, etc), the corporation takes care of you. Other ways of doing things might work for a business, but they don't work for a society (and that's basically what each corporation is, in and of itself). Also, since to a large degree, on the level of individual Caldari, the local economy is probably also going straight back to the corporation (your disposable income is probably mostly corporate scrip you spend with your own corporation, you pension fund is run by your corporation, your hairdresser works for a wholly-owned corporate subsidiary, etc.) the corporate has an incentive to keep workers happy and well paid. Their financial health is in part the way countries stay financially healthy (money moving around a lot, workforce/productivity is a major asset) in addition to selling products and services.

Now, this is just a general - and maybe even idealized - case. Obviously they will have people around the edges, dirty dealing in private, etc. But that's where I think the expectation is for most Caldari.
« Last Edit: 27 Jun 2012, 22:52 by Silver Night »
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Lyn Farel

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #43 on: 28 Jun 2012, 04:50 »

I think that "contract" rite of passage as you say, when a Caldari grows up and has to find a place in the society (most often in the parent's megacorporation for vaious obvious reasons as said above), might not be a lot more than what we already have today in most countries in terms of administration. When you end up being an adult RL - well, I do not know how it works in other countries but it is probably similar - you have some paperwork to fill to get on the public records, for taxes, voting rights, etc etc. I doubt that the Caldari do it a lot differently, the only main difference is that you "finalize" your life contract with one of the megas instead of the state.

It seems also obvious that some Caldari work for unaligned entities like the CPD, house of records, etc. What do you think of that ? Are these people still hosted by their native mega while working for a "public" corporation ? Or do these public corporations work like any mega and provide everything the employee needs ? Also, we have the specific case of the Navy for the state military.
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Seriphyn

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Re: [Draft] Caldari Corporate and State Structure
« Reply #44 on: 28 Jun 2012, 05:34 »

I've been a bit of an political economy nerd recently (as exhibited by my IC posts about structural violence and poverty >_>), so with that in mind, are we sure the Disassociated are exclusively criminal underworld stuff?

Like, the Homeless item. How are the homeless/poor in the State organized, and where do they live? I've pictured it as a bit of a have/have-not situation (versus the more subjective and varying definitions of social class in the Fed). Shanty towns? Do the Disassociated only become tied to the criminal underworld because people like the Guristas move in to control these shanty towns?

Secondly, how do the Practicals justify their actions to their populace? Pure out propaganda? Same as Fed coating their actions in principle. As players we have a LOT of OOC knowledge that might be sheltered from the actual inhabitants of EVE. For example, with the Protein delicacy fiasco, the fact that they were made from biological waste was just not told to the SuVee public, so they could paint the Fed people as being reactionary for no reason. To me, I find it confusing how the Caldari are possibly honorable (though it says they are 'more unscrupulous than the Gallente') but have a so-called "unethical" corporation.

Perhaps the honour bit is a player-construct, because of all the Japanese influences? Potentially, the Caldari moral system is radically different from ours as players (for example, not caring about those who are seen as 'weak')
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