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[Ken]

Also, before being smoked out by the Provists, we have to remember that Quafe used to be the ninth corporation of the Big Eight - a Gallente mega having full membership rights in the State.

I always had the impression that prior to YC110 Quafe's status meant it was free to conduct business in State space like any other Caldari mega (and was successful in that market), but never that it was so powerful as to be considered a shadow member of the Big Eight.

[orange]

Also, before being smoked out by the Provists, we have to remember that Quafe used to be the ninth corporation of the Big Eight - a Gallente mega having full membership rights in the State.

I always had the impression that prior to YC110 Quafe's status meant it was free to conduct business in State space like any other Caldari mega (and was successful in that market), but never that it was so powerful as to be considered a shadow member of the Big Eight.

I interpreted this to mean that while the Big 8 essentially dictate the foreign policy of the State, there are other corporations that have a presence on the CEP, CBT, and HoR.   This gives those corporations all the rights of a State corporation when interacting with the other State corporations.  Quafe was the largest and most influential of the non-Big 8.  I would not be surprised if CreoDron, Roden, Khanid Innovations, ORE, Mordu's Legion, etc have representatives at large CEP meetings.  A way to look at is that instead of lobbiest going through Representatives, they are having to work with each other to get what they want at the CEP.

The CreoDron lobby cares whether or not the CN is funded in Lonetrek to protect its assets there.  They will lobby and maybe even contribute funds for their defense, especially if the CN's local Drone contract comes their way.  KK and Lai Dai may not like this possibility and so lobby for one of their subs to get the contract and SuVee is footing most of the bill for that CN squadron, so they decide who gets the contract.

[Syylara/Yaansu]

I interpreted this to mean that while the Big 8 essentially dictate the foreign policy of the State, there are other corporations that have a presence on the CEP, CBT, and HoR.   This gives those corporations all the rights of a State corporation when interacting with the other State corporations.  Quafe was the largest and most influential of the non-Big 8.  I would not be surprised if CreoDron, Roden, Khanid Innovations, ORE, Mordu's Legion, etc have representatives at large CEP meetings.  A way to look at is that instead of lobbiest going through Representatives, they are having to work with each other to get what they want at the CEP.

"The Chief Executive Panel is a political entity jointly owned and run by the Caldari megacorporations. The CEOs of the mega corporations sit on the board of the Panel..."

How strictly to interpret this is up to each individual, of course.  In my mind, I'd imagine that foreign-owned corps, minor State corps and other interested parties may have representatives at the CEP, but have no voting rights (like Guam has a Representative in U.S. Congress, but doesn't vote).  In the CBT it is expected that corporate loyalties are put aside (though the entry does say "ostensibly" which suggests that this is the ideal and not absolute).

There are many minor (NPC) Corporations listed under the Caldari State, some are entirely independent, some are subsidiaries of the Megas that are notable enough to warrant their own listings and a few are spin-offs.

The CreoDron lobby cares whether or not the CN is funded in Lonetrek to protect its assets there.  They will lobby and maybe even contribute funds for their defense, especially if the CN's local Drone contract comes their way.  KK and Lai Dai may not like this possibility and so lobby for one of their subs to get the contract and SuVee is footing most of the bill for that CN squadron, so they decide who gets the contract.

I could see this being the case during peace time, but with an active war taking place, there might be something along the lines of a Trading with the Enemy Act. However, as seen in real life, this doesn't prevent such activity from taking place or from prosecution of violations being consistent.

[Publius Valerius]

How have I miss this thread?.... Politics, charts, subfaction.... ehm... I like it. Now is time for reading.... but give me some time

[Gessenier]

A question I've always asked myself is how a corporation gets put on the Chief Executive Panel in the first place. To be more specific it has to do with Lai Dai and NOH since they were not part of the original six that took part in seceding from the Federation.

I've always answered that question with Lai Dai and NOH being part of the traditional power struggle between SuVee and KK and attempts to gain more control over the CEP and the State decision making process. Certainly it seems unsurprising either party thinking to themselves: "Hey, if we offload some of our subsidiaries into a new entity and then get them a seat on the CEP, more power to us." Only for the other side to react and do the same thing with the end result of having two extra Megas on the CEP but with the same balance of power.

I would say that speaks strongly for how power is distributed in the State. The Megacorporations are in most respects powers unto themselves and the Caldari State and its independent institutions exist solely for the benefit of their own interests. Even getting a seat on the CEP is dependent on the largesse of an existing Mega due to the amount of economic control they exert over the State. Hell, the Megas even back their own currencies in the State domestic market and probably conduct all sorts of manipulation on it to ensure that the wages they pay out get sunk back into products they make and sell.

Until Tibus Heth and the Provists there were almost no checks on the economic and political power of the Megacorporations in the Caldari State that were not self-imposed by themselves via the CEP. Because aside from banks like CFU (Which probably has restrictions itself on independent/private loans outside to the Megas) almost all capital in the State is centralized in the central bank/financial institution that is at the heart of each Mega. It's a deliberate system to ensure that power is retained by existing Megas and potential competition by rising corporations will eventually be bought out when they need to raise funds through an IPO in order to expand.

That is what I've always found interesting about the State. Externally, sure, the Megas are willing to show a united front to outsiders but internally I think the management and executives are focused on their own interests and shafting their rivals with backroom dealing, corporate knife-fighting and shady practices. In purely political terms, the Caldari State as it exists is just a very useful power structure for the Megacorporations to advance and protect their interests and what it promotes is a very driven, competitive and focused society for no other reason than that if people don't perform well and do their job then there isn't any safety net there to catch you and it's game over man, because you have no bill of rights and no courts of arbitration to appeal to.

That I think is why the Provists seem to have so much support in the State currently from the "common" worker because they were told if they worked hard, conformed and did their jobs as part of their corporation they would be rewarded. How the Megas distributed power in the State in their own interests and that of their shareholders made that promise increasingly more difficult to deliver upon until all that economic and social disparity just blew up in their faces.

My short, simple and incoherent view on things anyway. I just think it's a misconception to think that the Caldari State is a state in the traditional sense because it came into being solely due to the  original six Megas during the Caldari secession and the only authority that has ever existed to check their power are the other Megas via the CEP. Or the attempts by the CPD, more recently. There is no independent "government" per se in the State because the Megas are able to govern their own affairs and that of their employees and jealously guard that independence individually whilst at the same time seeking to impose their own interests and views as well as increase their power over other Megas via the CEP. The political parallels of the State, I think, lie in feudalism or city-states with the Megacorporation being the modern incarnations of the Raata Empire's Clans/Houses/Families/Whatever they had for the Caldari.

[Casiella]

This reminds me: why would a Wiyrkomi-affiliated employee/citizen/whatever get worked up about possible issues with performance metrics from a KK employee? That doesn't strike me as expected in any way.

[Malcolm Khross]

This reminds me: why would a Wiyrkomi-affiliated employee/citizen/whatever get worked up about possible issues with performance metrics from a KK employee? That doesn't strike me as expected in any way.

I'd hardly call what Malcolm was doing being "worked up." But, suffice it to say that bad business from Kaalakiota is likely to put a stain on the State as a whole in the eyes of the one doing business with them, which would also make it unlikely that they'd be willing to pursue business with Wiyrkomi.

However, if a Wiyrkomi employee points out the failure and how to proceed and the customer discovers something ill begotten from Kaalakiota, then the  Wiyrkomi Corporation has gained a level of trust in the eyes of the customer and may be able to make a "counter offer" as in "Well, you could trust that Wiyrkomi Corporation would never allow this sort of failure."

[Casiella]

As you like, of course, but to me that seems slightly disconnected from my (outsiders?) perspective.

[orange]

Might matter if the KK employee is working for Wirykomi as a subcontractor 

[Makkal]

However, if a Wiyrkomi employee points out the failure and how to proceed and the customer discovers something ill begotten from Kaalakiota, then the  Wiyrkomi Corporation has gained a level of trust in the eyes of the customer and may be able to make a "counter offer" as in "Well, you could trust that Wiyrkomi Corporation would never allow this sort of failure."

I'm suddenly recalling how cool Malcolm was with those Kaalakiota employees getting collared.

[Malcolm Khross]

However, if a Wiyrkomi employee points out the failure and how to proceed and the customer discovers something ill begotten from Kaalakiota, then the  Wiyrkomi Corporation has gained a level of trust in the eyes of the customer and may be able to make a "counter offer" as in "Well, you could trust that Wiyrkomi Corporation would never allow this sort of failure."

I'm suddenly recalling how cool Malcolm was with those Kaalakiota employees getting collared.

Heh. Malcolm is a Caldari Patriot. He has a deep-seated loyalty and kinship with the Caldari but he also thinks like a Caldari. In this case, the KK employees broke the laws of the land they were working in, which would make them subject to that land's legal system unless Kaalakiota attempted to intervene. Malcolm works for Wiyrkomi, he's not going to step in and interject on Kaalakiota's behalf, if KK doesn't act on behalf of the employees then no one will.

Malcolm is a generally a compassionate and understanding person, which tends to make him act very close to a Liberal sometimes, but his overwhelming behavioral pattern is that of a Patriot. What bothers me is that people seem to be of the opinion that the Caldari won't look after one another across corporate lines which isn't entirely accurate. Keep in mind that the corporations share information with one another regarding potential employees, bad employees and national security. Yes, there's competition between them but in the end they're all Caldari and they're going to look out for themselves especially when it comes to international relations.

It shouldn't be that hard to understand why Malcolm would be concerned about the failure of a few KK employees conducting business in the Kingdom and how that will result in a negative impact on business from the State in relation to that client from that point forward and yet not be overly concerned if those same employees broke laws and were subject to the penalty for doing so. In both cases, the focus is how the State appears to the client and how potential business with that client going forward will be affected.

Right now, Kaalakiota seems to be having a lot of trouble with this particular client and it isn't too much of a stretch to think that they might be willing to move their business to another corporation if the service/pricing is comparable/better.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Malcolm is a generally a compassionate and understanding person, which tends to make him act very close to a Liberal sometimes

Understanding and compassionate does not mean Liberal Caldari.
Liberal Caldari does not mean understanding and compassionate.

"Liberal Caldari" is a trade and economics outlook. It has nothing to do with the personality of those involved.

[orange]

Malcolm is a generally a compassionate and understanding person, which tends to make him act very close to a Liberal sometimes

Understanding and compassionate does not mean Liberal Caldari.
Liberal Caldari does not mean understanding and compassionate.

"Liberal Caldari" is a trade and economics outlook. It has nothing to do with the personality of those involved.

Ya, but the jagii mistake the pursuit of liberal trade/economics for compassion/understanding 

[Malcolm Khross]

Malcolm is a generally a compassionate and understanding person, which tends to make him act very close to a Liberal sometimes

Understanding and compassionate does not mean Liberal Caldari.
Liberal Caldari does not mean understanding and compassionate.

"Liberal Caldari" is a trade and economics outlook. It has nothing to do with the personality of those involved.

Ya, but the jagii mistake the pursuit of liberal trade/economics for compassion/understanding 

Precisely this.

I was trying to explain how Malcolm constantly gets accused of being a "liberal" because he tries to be understanding and compassionate.

[Ken]

I made this some time ago based on the old stock ownership info.

That is, btw, an extremely helpful graphic, Hamish.  I used to keep it all in a spreadsheet.  Much easier to reference this way.