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[Seriphyn]

A personal player dislike for FW doesn't negate the fact that warfighting occurs regularly between the empire navies 'under the radar', both planetside and in space.

[Hamish Grayson]

Seri,

The content 'team' within CCP haven't had any sort of oversight from upper management since 2006.   Any involvement by the Devs has pretty much been volunteer work and not their primary job.  Nor has there been any sort of co-ordination between those volunteers.   Some of the people writing 'PF' lean toward your pet theory and some toward mine, some lean toward something else.   Arguing over the 'truth' is pointless because every new piece of PF contradicts the last six.  Eve PF is broken and hasn't made any sense for over half a decade.   

[Louella Dougans]

it became less visible, because people like to race to the bottom.

angel cartel, sansha, blood raider, those factions keep slaves, are open about it. People consider those factions "cool", so don't get the same amount of cheap shots fired at them

imperial slavers, people are very quick to say such things as "is that what the priest said when they raped you?"

So, people playing imperial slavers, tend to get bored of that same dull cheap nonsense, so tend to disappear from the public communal mudwrestling pit that is "the summit" or the IGS.

[Kybernetes Moros]

Lou put it well, I feel. I don't know the Empire RP community especially intricately, but I have noticed in the past a lot of fairly solid attempts at casually making reference to slave holding in an Imperial context -- not the hackneyed "I r ebil Holder" stuff, just the kind of casual reference you might expect from someone who's been born into a society where it's normal and lived their all their life -- and immediately been set upon by the "omg, die slaver!" crowd and / or the "lol, pedopriest" arguments.

Not entirely how I like to see things done, really, given that it does tend to bore the people playing it (either out of that trope or out of publically RPing in general), but, apparently, people like it enough to do it each time such a character appears. There are exceptions who don't get pounced upon so hard or don't give it up, but in my experience they are in a minority.

[Lyn Farel]

it became less visible, because people like to race to the bottom.

angel cartel, sansha, blood raider, those factions keep slaves, are open about it. People consider those factions "cool", so don't get the same amount of cheap shots fired at them

imperial slavers, people are very quick to say such things as "is that what the priest said when they raped you?"

So, people playing imperial slavers, tend to get bored of that same dull cheap nonsense, so tend to disappear from the public communal mudwrestling pit that is "the summit" or the IGS.

This.

Even my character had to deal with that shit. I mean, what the hell...

Then pissed Amarrians end up eventually to answer "What the hell are you so concerned about imperial slavery ? At least, we have rules. Why dont you go drag in the mud all the angels and pirates on this forums too ?", and they get answered "You slaver moron", or they just ignore the argument.

[Mizhara]

... wait, so they wanted to be slavers without being called out on being a slaver? Idungetit.

[Lyn Farel]

Nevermind. Just read what Lou said much better than me.

[Louella Dougans]

... wait, so they wanted to be slavers without being called out on being a slaver? Idungetit.

No. Difference between calling out, and race to the bottom.

"I am a Holder"

"Slavery is morally wrong, for the following reasons: (argument that is reasonably well constructed, given worldview of character speaking, and provides scope for more RP)"
vs
"You're a slaver eh? that's because you were abused by priests, wasn't it? and so you've become an abuser yourself"

which is... an RP dead end, amongst other things.

[Mizhara]

Huh. Well, as most should know, Miz was probably the most fervent slaver-hater out there but even she didn't go the cheap-shot route. All slavers were still an enemy without question, but the pedophile/priest/religion route is just... well, frankly it doesn't fit PF to begin with. I never saw that stuff, really.

[Louella Dougans]

it comes and goes, but happens enough for a tendency towards the player thinking "this isn't fun, I'll go do something else".

And, like I said, there is an oddity, esp. comparing the blood raider rpers to the imperial rpers.

the blood raiders, according to pf such as "the burning life" book, are at least as religious as any Imperial crusader, and treat their captives rather... poorly...

you can argue the truth/falseness of Imperial orthodox slavery as a character-building exercise vs a sham to provide cheap labour. There is really not the same argument to be made about the blood raiders. Human farms, mass cloning for sacrifices, and so forth.

And yet, people don't go the cheap shot route with the blood raider rpers. It is odd.

[Mizhara]

... there are Blood Raider RPers? The thing is, though, a lot of these pirate/fringe people aren't really counted as significant enough to really get worked up about. When in EM I kept pointing and yelling at the various corps full of people Matari should by all accounts want to turn into so much space vapor but the response was pretty much always "Yeah... but they're too small.".

The only 'enemies' of any significant size has always been the Empire loyalists, so they're the ones the effort goes against. Well, used to be. I'm kind of out of the loop now.

[Repentence Tyrathlion]

There's also easier shots to be made.  Not to mention it's harder to make cute comments at someone doing it for teh ebilz than someone trying to be upright and reasonable about it.

[Kiki Truzhari]

The other thing is, in a lot of cases, it seems like the upright and reasonable slavers all face the issue of having morality argued at them endlessly. Eventually something has to give, and generally it gives with the Imperial player leaving the Empire and 'learning the error of his ways' in order to really get past that, they need to either have blinders on, be zealots who can't be reasonably argued with, or assholes who do it partly to be assholes.

I mean, I've found that when an new amarrian RPer comes onto the scene, the first conversation about them in corp chat generally ends up being about whether or not they could be talked down from their slaver ways.

[Ghost Hunter]

it became less visible, because people like to race to the bottom.

angel cartel, sansha, blood raider, those factions keep slaves, are open about it. People consider those factions "cool", so don't get the same amount of cheap shots fired at them

imperial slavers, people are very quick to say such things as "is that what the priest said when they raped you?"

So, people playing imperial slavers, tend to get bored of that same dull cheap nonsense, so tend to disappear from the public communal mudwrestling pit that is "the summit" or the IGS.

Chiming in from the Sansha side :

Our most common issue we encounter is the ridiculous comparison to the Borg from Star Trek. While this doesn't stem from the same moral bucket scraping as 'priest rapists lolo', it can lead to the same levels of frustration and disinclination to be involved with non-Sansha people because they only see the Borg cardboard cut outs.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Well, I like to think that Nico has some good arguments for her keeping slaves. All in all, I tried to go a middle way with her between pro-slavery and contra-slavery. Reforms to the system? Yes, most certainly. Abolishing it? What the hell are you thinking?

Still, I left EVE. Which had several reasons:

1. SW:TOR - Quite honestly, I had neither time nor money to keep up the EVE account as well.
2. People running around presenting Amarr as "Space-Catholics".
3. People running around presenting Amarr as "Space-Nazis".

Especially the latter two are time and again immersion-breaking for me.
This starts with the "is that what the priest said when they raped you?" Lou mentioned and ends with people citing the Bible as Amarrian Scripture and people simply assuming that the Amarrian concept of God is just the same as catholic doctrine dictates (The three A's). Something experienced coming from both sides of the Amarr/Minmatar divide.

It's roughly the same with the "Space-Nazi" or the "Sansha=Borg" thing, though it's oftentimes more subtle. The fact that there are similarities doesn't mean they are the same or make the comparison any less ridiculous. I imagine Caldari get to hear that too, since Heth.

For me, it's not just a thing of "race to the bottom", dullness nonsense and resulting boredom. The immersion isn't broken because I'm bereft of meaningful replies to "is that what the priest said when they raped you?", but mainly, because I'm immediately pulled out of character and think to myself something like: "If you have quarrels with that, go argue with a catholic priest."

Religion, freedom, slavery, racism, Democracy vs Dictatorship are topics that are hot. All of them touch the Amarr to some degree. That what makes them so interesting. On the other hand, though, it really gets dull when people push those debates pertaining to these topics on you, which they should rather have with the people in RL they aim at.

P.S.: As far as I can tell "all those slavers", that are "gone", are IC'ly either minding their planetside business or went to Angels / turned to Sani Sabik-ism.