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[Silas Vitalia]

Where? Not seeing it on evelopedia

[Louella Dougans]

pax amarria chronicle will be here

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Prepare for liberal peacenik sploogewave.

[Publius Valerius]

He has just a tease so far: Pax Ammaria (Chronicle). Maybe he should bring a one-liner like:

• Three great man, a King, a priest and a richman.
• The Big fish eats the little fish.
• Responsibility come with a cost.

But It will be a intressting one, their are many ways which he can run, a idealistic way or more the Augustus way (moral reforms, conservatism and family values etc...... prosperity and the formal pretence of the republic... in our case maybe some new infos.)

Me personally... I think some stuff will be idealistic and peace keeping, what some are call liberal; which I call idealistic or romantic. Nevermind....

But he, heideran, needs a counterpoint to Khanid II... and most likely It will be a Romanticism Versus Enlightenment confict. Or some would say idealistic vs. realpolitk (Idealism Versus Realism).

[Lyn Farel]

I think my issue is just one more of representation.  When 90% of the Amarrian RPers are reformers/liberals, something doesn't add up.

This isn't to say I don't want variety and diversity of characters. I happen to quite like the idea of liberal Amarrians trying to change the system and bring it into the modern age... but that sort of thing would be a rarity, or at -least- not a majority opinion.

There's no real way around this as we are all RL people and not many are that interested in investing RP time being the 'bad guy.'

It's just.... how would the Matari RPers feel if 90% of the Minmatar RPers were super friendly with Amarrians and had no issues with slavery? It's immersion-breaking for me sometimes.

I half disagree with the fact that liberals are a minority. Depends what you call liberal I guess, but I mostly refer myself to Kor-Azorites or even Tash-Murkonites. Like in every faction, they are the amarrian liberals : Kor Azor is about diplomacy/conciliation, supporting soft and new amarrian mindsets, but still very respectful of the Amarr way of life, while I see Tash Murkon like the champions of the more practical and liberal family, coming from a self made House of commoners and rich merchants that are probably thinking a little less mainstream and orthodox than even the Kor Azor. This is the way I see things, but they embody what Heideran was, and what Catiz is. Compared to other Amarrians, they are VERY nice guys, quite close to the good guys actually (in a RL morality point of view).

Unless you refer to all lovey dovey amarrians that share not a lot anymore with their own cultural faction ofc. Those are supposed to be a minority, not the former. As Graelyn said, what people read in the PF and the public easy to get info about Amarr is what concerns their OLD WAYS, not the current reformed Empire that is struggling to keep up with modern standards. Which is complicated to balance considering it is somewhere in between the ludicrous out of place reclaimers of old that still think like amarrians used to think even before they took off to the stars, and the now usual so called amarrian loyalist that has lost anything that would normally make him... still Amarrian, with an amarrian flavor that can be felt without any doubt (TashMurkon/KorAzor like for example).

My point and what annoys me sometimes is that hardcore Amarrian RPers seem to forget that the Amarr society has a mainstream mindset and monolithic religion, yes, but that amarrian conservatives are not the ebil slaver archetype we see everywhere. Some characters I really liked were for example Crow, that managed not to be hated by everyone, or even Leopold even if he is an angel. Those characters are not ebil twirling mustache slavers that will eventually end up to be the laughing stock of the cluster. Maybe one of the reasons that amarrian conservatives are less played, because its damn difficult to paint a believable characters like this. Like a lot of similar cases, like a provist, or a corrupted politic, for example. I think it could really be said the same for pseudo "bad guys" of every faction, with the possible exception of extremist freedom fighters. How many of these characters do you see on the roleplaying scene ? I do not see a lot of them, especially in the pirate factions. Which is something that usually makes me more sad than the lack of those characters in the empire factions. From what I see on every pirate faction (blooders and maybe Sansha excepted), does not feel like outlaws to me, but I suppose I just lack of the complete picture here.

[lallara zhuul]

I'll have to disagree with the view that the Empire has actually changed in the nine years since the higher ups have thought about changing the Empire into something more like the other empires.

There are several reasons that are against that, one major one being the length of generations in the upper classes. Only real way of reforming societies in the real world is through education, if you have Holders that are holding the reins in the upper echelons of the society that were educated around the time that the Khanid Kingdom was formed, then saying that they have changed in nine years, to me, is utter foolishness.
Most of the characters of the players have formed their world views decades before Heideran died, in very slightly different society that they are living in now. And as you know from real world, world views very rarely change for anyone during their lifetime. Liberal or conservative, they are what they were raised to.

The same education bit goes for every tier of the society, so basically you may have people that are around 15 years old that actually have been educated for the 'New Empire', the problem arises in the fact that who is giving that education.

Royal Amarrian Institute is/was owned by the Sarum and Ardishapur families, Hedion University on the other hand has always been the alma mater of the liberals, so people coming from that 'lineage' would be those more inclined of embracing the more cosmopolite way of seeing things.

This just shows that the whole education system in the Empire is divided into factions, and the political situation of the who is the Emperor does not affect it.

Other major aspect of the Amarrian culture that is against of the whole Empire becoming more like the others is the deeply entrenched respect for tradition.

Yes, Heideran reigned for several hundred years, but the Pax Amarria thing rose only after the Amarrians encountered the Gallente. After the Rebellion and Vak'Atioth the Empire was weak (militarily) and shaken (morally) so the only option was for the Emperor to push the Reclaiming on the back burner and do the politically smart thing and settle the issues with the new empires through diplomacy instead of Religious War.

Doriam.

He was a joke, he was alive for what... year or two... he really does not 'count'.

Crazy Zombie Bitch Jamyl?

Any Amarrian that has a religious bone in their body will disregard anything that she says and only give lip service so that they will not be ostracized by their peers. They will not certainly change their views so that they will be what she preaches.

The Kor-Azor and Tash-Murkon?

The fact that someone is a diplomat, it is more likely that their dedication to the 'cause' is unflinching than for a common person. They just have the skills to emulate ways of socially interacting with those that are not from the norm, under very rare conditions they will actually even consider that the ones they are interacting with to be equal to them. Case and point the diplomatic missives in Wikileaks.

Same goes double for business.

The Empire is monolithic entity, it does not change easily.
The past nine years in its history has been aberrations and most likely are treated as such by the majority of the Empire.
The veneer of 'civilized' behaviour may be thicker in some parts of the Empire, but it is nothing but the surface, if you scratch it, you will find the old lying underneath.

Just an opposing view, lets rumble.

[Rodj Blake]

Doriam.

He was a joke, he was alive for what... year or two... he really does not 'count'.

That's a bit harsh.  He did manage to kick the Blood Raiders out of the Empire after suitable provocation.

[Graelyn]

Just an opposing view, lets rumble.

Since the EVE storyline completely ended a couple years ago, is anyone still concerned about arguing about any of it?

[Silas Vitalia]

Just an opposing view, lets rumble.

Since the EVE storyline completely ended a couple years ago, is anyone still concerned about arguing about any of it?

Point to Graelyn.  Next round!

[Lyn Farel]

I don't disagree with this.

[lallara zhuul]

Doriam.

He was a joke, he was alive for what... year or two... he really does not 'count'.

That's a bit harsh.  He did manage to kick the Blood Raiders out of the Empire after suitable provocation.

Wasn't it the Aegis Militia that was at the frontline of the conflict?

You can't really be that efficient at exterminating the Blood Raiders if your Chancellor is one.

Which reminds me, just about every honorary mention or a nod from the Empire to PIE was from that exact Chancellor... which kind of taints the whole service to the Empire bit doesn't it?

[BloodBird]

Just because one man in a position that few if any will question turned out to be a heretic don't mean the man above him was not effective in getting heretics killed when thousands to millions of them died in the fighting and they got kicked out of their space.

Just because one man is a heretic don't mean that the lip-service praise he offers the loyal soldiers (whom he secretly don't like, but he can't say that loud) is not praise at all, or that it was not deserved - that just means that he was good at hiding his true allegiance and playing the part of the faithful chancellor.

Also Doriam was alive for far longer than just two years, it was not his fault he was assassinated two years after being crowned - that's on his assassin and those who wanted him dead.

[Publius Valerius]

Just because one man in a position that few if any will question turned out to be a heretic don't mean the man above him was not effective in getting heretics killed when thousands to millions of them died in the fighting and they got kicked out of their space.

Just because one man is a heretic don't mean that the lip-service praise he offers the loyal soldiers (whom he secretly don't like, but he can't say that loud) is not praise at all, or that it was not deserved - that just means that he was good at hiding his true allegiance and playing the part of the faithful chancellor.

Also Doriam was alive for far longer than just two years, it was not his fault he was assassinated two years after being crowned - that's on his assassin and those who wanted him dead.

God I hate you   BloodBird why your are bringing reason in this diskussion? Lets incriminate the victims; those with restricted information... man... Have you never learned from the IGS? Be offensiv and never apologize, even someone proves it, just than go on the other forum und post there again.... this 1.0 Internet-diskussion.

[Silas Vitalia]

That whole Karsoth thing..... it reeks as much as Jamyl. Didn't he have a 'secret' chamber behind the throne room for blood-raider orgy-time that no one seemed to notice or care about? Ugh.

Also with this cresthill thing, if you talk about your RP alt in your own thread ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=955588#post955588) and talk about interactions you've had, does that strike anyone else as a bit weird? Perhaps no more weird than RP in general I suppose, but kind of crosses some line for me. I'd feel like RP alts are just fine but maybe should play in different ends of the pool.

[Mizhara]

Also with this cresthill thing, if you talk about your RP alt in your own thread ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=955588#post955588) and talk about interactions you've had, does that strike anyone else as a bit weird? Perhaps no more weird than RP in general I suppose, but kind of crosses some line for me. I'd feel like RP alts are just fine but maybe should play in different ends of the pool.

Or do the exact opposite, make sure the RP alts are tight as hell. When there's no question of them being connected and on the same agenda, there's no strawman stuff, no "who are you actually loyal to" stuff and so on and so forth. Having one on each side of the pool kind of begs the questions of loyalty, infiltration (benign or otherwise) and so on.