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[Graelyn]

I think my issue is just one more of representation.  When 90% of the Amarrian RPers are reformers/liberals, something doesn't add up.

Heideraan wrote the Pax.
Doriam furthered it.
Jamyl (the 'sarumite' empress) has curtailed slavery, and declared that it will be coming to an end.

The 'conservative' end of Imperial thinking has been under direct reform for some time now from the absolute highest levels.

This isn't just TonyG bullshit either. This is the current direction the Empire has been visibly moving towards.

I wish the conservative Amarr had more adherents, just to add flavor, but anyone surprised by the tendency of Amarr RPers to adhere to the direction thier faction has been going since the game went live isn't paying enough attention.

[Silas Vitalia]

I think my issue is just one more of representation.  When 90% of the Amarrian RPers are reformers/liberals, something doesn't add up.

Heideraan wrote the Pax.
Doriam furthered it.
Jamyl (the 'sarumite' empress) has curtailed slavery, and declared that it will be coming to an end.

The 'conservative' end of Imperial thinking has been under direct reform for some time now from the absolute highest levels.

This isn't just TonyG bullshit either. This is the current direction the Empire has been visibly moving towards.

I wish the conservative Amarr had more adherents, just to add flavor, but anyone surprised by the tendency of Amarr RPers to adhere to the direction thier faction has been going since the game went live isn't paying enough attention.

So I guess I'm not paying enough attention?

Slavery is just one aspect of what I'm talking about, but I think your points are debatable.   Heideran was a peacenick, yes, Doriam was the result of player actions so we don't know how they would have ran the PF if a more conservative holder had won the tournament, and Jamyl did release some slaves but she also launched a new reclaiming, which is by definition going to be scooping in all sorts of new captures to add to existing holdings. 

Back to the other stuff though, it's the blunting and changing of what is presented as a domineering, xenophobic, expansionist, and not-very-nice 'Empire' into a kinder, gentler, politically correct faction.   

It's their baby, and if CCP wants the Amarr to phase out the slavery aspect then so be it, but it's one hell of a edit to try and pull.  The whole religion kind of falls apart, their need for expansion, it's a lot to work around. It's also the central foil for the whole Republic, so you chop the legs off of the conflict between the two factions.

My point being I read the PF and the Amarr are generally xenophobic, haughty, etc as we all know, and I look at the RP reflection of that and random joe Amarrian capsuleer is super best friends for life with all sorts of heathens and outsiders.


 

[Graelyn]

Back to the other stuff though, it's the blunting and changing of what is presented as a domineering, xenophobic, expansionist, and not-very-nice 'Empire' into a kinder, gentler, politically correct faction.   

It's their baby, and if CCP wants the Amarr to phase out the slavery aspect then so be it, but it's one hell of a edit to try and pull.

It is, and you're right about that.

But that is what's happening, and it's what's been happening since before game launch.

The narrative arc of the Amarr Empire at launch in 2003 begins with Heideraan VII winning that peace award and trying to reform his Empire. Everything in Amarr's storyline has been about the forces working toward, and those working against, that path, which is espoused in the only book in the game that is a physical item you can carry around (Pax Amarria).

Remember, the New Reclaiming was started by an external invasion. How does a reformer use such an event to meet their ends? How do you keep the hardliners busy?

The Introduction to Amarr as a race when you begin the game focuses on the Rebellion and Vak'Atioth, and the way in which those defeats have flipped Amarr society, and how Amarr deals with the rest of the cluster. Amarr starts the game of EVE on the back foot, re-evaluating everything.

Amarr has the best storyline of all the Empires IMO, because it is very much a monolithic hulking super-entity that is on the brink of transformation, in a Nation that by it's very history and make-up is extremely resistant to any form of change. Aside from insta-Heth in the State, no other Empire has any real progression or direction to it, it seems, which is a shame...

EVE hammers these things into new players with a heavy hand. It's no wonder that the RP-inclined get a whiff of it, affecting the character they decide to make.

On the other hand, I won't deny that some folks are just too wussy to make a strong Amarr who adheres to the Old Ways, and are just trying to make the race more palatable to thier RL selves and ideals, and that shit annoys me. Still, CCP and all the chrons make the case that those sort of Amarr would not only exist, but would be exploding in numbers.

[Aodha Khan]

I think its not only about slavery. Most RP has been pretty stale for the last few years as everyone is mixing together in parties. Minmatar, Amarr, Angels, Sabik etc all coming together like happy families. Totally immersion breaking for me and you will never see me at one unless its faction allies only.

I also feel that people are too afraid of playing the bad guy because they have already set up friendships with most of the RP community via places like OOC and dont wish to cause any harm in terms of gameplay. Part of my RP was to destroy corps/alliances linked with the Empire and how could I do such a thing if my best OOC friend is in those corps? Understandable and why I tend to stay away from mixed OOC channels etc.

Eve used to be a harsh place in the early days and I miss it so much.

Signed, bitter vet/rper.

[Silas Vitalia]

Back to the other stuff though, it's the blunting and changing of what is presented as a domineering, xenophobic, expansionist, and not-very-nice 'Empire' into a kinder, gentler, politically correct faction.   

It's their baby, and if CCP wants the Amarr to phase out the slavery aspect then so be it, but it's one hell of a edit to try and pull.

It is, and you're right about that.

But that is what's happening, and it's what's been happening since before game launch.

The narrative arc of the Amarr Empire at launch in 2003 begins with Heideraan VII winning that peace award and trying to reform his Empire. Everything in Amarr's storyline has been about the forces working toward, and those working against, that path, which is espoused in the only book in the game that is a physical item you can carry around (Pax Amarria).

Remember, the New Reclaiming was started by an external invasion. How does a reformer use such an event to meet their ends? How do you keep the hardliners busy?

The Introduction to Amarr as a race when you begin the game focuses on the Rebellion and Vak'Atioth, and the way in which those defeats have flipped Amarr society, and how Amarr deals with the rest of the cluster. Amarr starts the game of EVE on the back foot, re-evaluating everything.

Amarr has the best storyline of all the Empires IMO, because it is very much a monolithic hulking super-entity that is on the brink of transformation, in a Nation that by it's very history and make-up is extremely resistant to any form of change. Aside from insta-Heth in the State, no other Empire has any real progression or direction to it, it seems, which is a shame...

EVE hammers these things into new players with a heavy hand. It's no wonder that the RP-inclined get a whiff of it, affecting the character they decide to make.

On the other hand, I won't deny that some folks are just too wussy to make a strong Amarr who adheres to the Old Ways, and are just trying to make the race more palatable to thier RL selves and ideals, and that shit annoys me. Still, CCP and all the chrons make the case that those sort of Amarr would not only exist, but would be exploding in numbers.

Well said, Graelyn.  Just a bitter lamen on my part for not seeing much representation of the other side of the coin I suppose.

A kinder, gentler, reformed Empire though loses all of its appeal to my tastes though. Ardishapur 2012!

[hellgremlin]

The whole problem is Jamyl Sarum.

When Jamyl got onto the Imperial throne, I was expecting a conquering queen. Smashing the Elder fleet was a great indication of things to come... and then nothing.

Jamyl releasing the 9th-gen slaves was supposed to fill the Republic with Amarr-faith-adherent Minmatar, creating massive unrest as the "freed" Minmatar go home and start attempting to convert the tribals to Imperial theology. This went ahead until the Abel Jarek arc... and then nothing.

Then again, most of Eve's plot problems can be summed up with "... and then nothing."

[Vieve]

Jamyl releasing the 9th-gen slaves was supposed to fill the Republic with Amarr-faith-adherent Minmatar, creating massive unrest as the "freed" Minmatar go home and start attempting to convert the tribals to Imperial theology.

Preach it.


I was also hoping, after seeing the love Angels were given in Skarkon, maybe a Heaven-and-Hell (all potential puns intended) type relationship would develop between them and the returning Minmatar.

[Rodj Blake]

It's not so long ago that people were complaining that the IGS was nothing but slavers and abolitionists pounding out the same old tired arguments.

Well, you got your wish 

On a side-note, there was a time when people condemned PIE for being too liberal.  If anything, we've become more liberal as time has gone on and yet we're now known as the hardliners.

[Rodj Blake]

The whole problem is Jamyl Sarum.

When Jamyl got onto the Imperial throne, I was expecting a conquering queen. Smashing the Elder fleet was a great indication of things to come... and then nothing.

Jamyl releasing the 9th-gen slaves was supposed to fill the Republic with Amarr-faith-adherent Minmatar, creating massive unrest as the "freed" Minmatar go home and start attempting to convert the tribals to Imperial theology. This went ahead until the Abel Jarek arc... and then nothing.

Then again, most of Eve's plot problems can be summed up with "... and then nothing."

If this forum had a like button, I'd be pressing it now.

[Mizhara]

The whole problem is Jamyl Sarum.

When Jamyl got onto the Imperial throne, I was expecting a conquering queen. Smashing the Elder fleet was a great indication of things to come... and then nothing.

Jamyl releasing the 9th-gen slaves was supposed to fill the Republic with Amarr-faith-adherent Minmatar, creating massive unrest as the "freed" Minmatar go home and start attempting to convert the tribals to Imperial theology. This went ahead until the Abel Jarek arc... and then nothing.

Then again, most of Eve's plot problems can be summed up with "... and then nothing."

This, pretty much. The same problem is on the other side of things, where it's all appeasers and weaklings. Still, I am forced to be slightly smug about how the presence of fairly stalwart principles and so on, on both sides was considered too much not too long ago. Guess everyone should be happy now that they're gone. Give it another six months and the Republic and Amarr Empire can ally completely, fulfilling the wishes of the RPers in general.

[Silas Vitalia]

Team Best Friends Forever taking on entirely new aspects.

[Publius Valerius]

It's not so long ago that people were complaining that the IGS was nothing but slavers and abolitionists pounding out the same old tired arguments.

Well, you got your wish 

On a side-note, there was a time when people condemned PIE for being too liberal.  If anything, we've become more liberal as time has gone on and yet we're now known as the hardliners.

I had the same feeling as I ninja tru this thread.


• 1. IGS isnt the whole Amarr RP community.
• 2. The English-speaking forums arent the whole Amarr RP community etc....
  I would even say, that for the german speaking part, that their wasnt never a liberal-economic or liberal-social majority. They were all conservativ, pro-slavery etc... Thats why I still my char a little different, because I thought like the Originalposter Silas Vitalia.... said:
  "We've also been without many public Sabik RPers for a while, and I'm trying to do it a bit 'differently' as in less Hedonist, more ruthless cult of power, etc. "
  Just enter Khanid for Sabik, I thought that their wasnt to much Amarr/Caldari Kingdom RPs.

Now to the most important question how I see slavery? As third born I have just my personal slaves, the House-Slaves are owned by my Father, always given form first born to first born. That means I can use most of the slaves and own personaly some, but most of them do I free ride like publics goods; that means Im actually worse than any amarr holder. And on top of that we use transcranial microcontrollers. So Im bad, but Im just not useing the IGS.

[Rodj Blake]

As a matter of interest, how big is the German Amarr scene these days?

[Publius Valerius]

As a matter of interest, how big is the German Amarr scene these days?

A RL friend tabis was in one corp... so 2010ish... they had ca. 100 members. So from the german help channel and other places I would say... so activ and people I know... so maybe 30-50ish. One corp I remeber was someting like Kador XXX.... when I have a activ account I can go tru the friend-list and give a better number and corp names. But like me acctually 90% of the roleplaying is ingame, which means less talk, more action (one of the reason I not really join IGS).
But currently the prime-forum (see here) is also a little quiet since sommer 2011. Maybe it is also because, "we" got on the official forum a german sub forum.

Edit:Or maybe so 20-40 would fit better.  By the way Abraxes has a new chronicle out... Pax Ammaria (Chronicle).

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Edit:Or maybe so 20-40 would fit better.  By the way Abraxes has a new chronicle out... Pax Ammaria (Chronicle).

zomg, linkies.