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[Ghost Hunter]

popping in to chime in about public standings :

Even though I would love to show off some of my standings, ultimately I think the game is better without any public demonstration. I do think applications should include a field that can show a person's NPC standings (as some corps this is very important mechanically for), but otherwise I'm all for them remaining private. The intelligence they give away is way too valuable.

[Bastian Valoron]

To clarify: I've never seen anyone use the NPC standings as a negative proof, i.e. "you aren't a...". I've only ever seen it used as positive proof, i.e. "I am a .... , see, look at my standings." I think most RPers understand that not everyone wants to grind up high standings with a given corp/faction, though if others have experienced it I understand your apprehension.

When the standings were public, they were used quite often as a negative proof in the summit, it was one of the standard ways to win an argument and be dismissive towards new players. Although times may have changed, it might still be occasionally tempting to appeal to canonical data resources to silence the opposition.

Building more content on top of missions and standings might not really be the ideal way to go, because they are more or less abandoned features right now. I'd rather like to see them evolve into some kind of loyalism package, together with the incursion mechanic.

It might be attracting for instance to be able to sign up as a supporter of any faction, institution, coalition or nonfaction group and earn ranks, benefits and public recognition with all kinds of gameplay, be it pve, pvp or isk.

[Morwen Lagann]

8.13 with Khanid Innovation, being my case in point  (totally Morwen's fault)

ilu2 Kalalalalalokitiri

[Nmaro Makari]

popping in to chime in about public standings :

Even though I would love to show off some of my standings, ultimately I think the game is better without any public demonstration. I do think applications should include a field that can show a person's NPC standings (as some corps this is very important mechanically for), but otherwise I'm all for them remaining private. The intelligence they give away is way too valuable.

^ Seconded

[Publius Valerius]

popping in to chime in about public standings :

Even though I would love to show off some of my standings, ultimately I think the game is better without any public demonstration. I do think applications should include a field that can show a person's NPC standings (as some corps this is very important mechanically for), but otherwise I'm all for them remaining private. The intelligence they give away is way too valuable.

That why I think a Free to choose option should be in there... like in the certificates system... but keep the number limited and the timeframe of actualisation of the Stanting... plus a timelimit how often you can change this Standings how you like to show (like ever 24hour or 7 days etc....). Why? See here.

[Lyn Farel]

I quite like the idea to be able to choose if some standings are to be public or not, much like decorations and stuff like that.

[Vieve]

I like the idea of being able to show a set number of standings.  One could play up the affiliations one was proud of (for good or ill), and mute the ones that don't make sense (e.g. Vieve's continuing high FIO standings -- oh, how I would love to see the introduction of a decay rate on NPC corp standards).

[Desiderya]

Not showing standings is okay, but the option to show certain standings off should be given, similar to certificates.

[Rodj Blake]

To clarify: I've never seen anyone use the NPC standings as a negative proof, i.e. "you aren't a...". I've only ever seen it used as positive proof, i.e. "I am a .... , see, look at my standings." I think most RPers understand that not everyone wants to grind up high standings with a given corp/faction, though if others have experienced it I understand your apprehension.

When the standings were public, they were used quite often as a negative proof in the summit, it was one of the standard ways to win an argument and be dismissive towards new players. Although times may have changed, it might still be occasionally tempting to appeal to canonical data resources to silence the opposition.

I don't see why calling out someone who claims to be a supporter of faction x but has a history of shooting at them at every opportunity should be a problem.

[Morwen Lagann]

I don't see why calling out someone who claims to be a supporter of faction x but has a history of shooting at them at every opportunity should be a problem.

I have highlighted the important part of Bastian's post - which I think you missed - below:

When the standings were public, they were used quite often as a negative proof in the summit, it was one of the standard ways to win an argument and be dismissive towards new players. Although times may have changed, it might still be occasionally tempting to appeal to canonical data resources to silence the opposition.

When you start a new character, you are given pre-set faction standings towards a number of the major factions, including the pirate ones. I'm pretty sure this is what he's talking about.

Added to the inability to create complex characters from the outset - in this case, starter schools that don't match your character's race, lack of equivalent 'starter' corps for factions not among the Big Four, this used to be a very disheartening prospect for the new guy who wanted to make (for example) an Ammatar loyalist or a Caldari dissident who's working for the Guristas, because not only would his/her character start in an inappropriate rookie corporation, but they would have pre-set standings that were based on loyalties the player didn't get to have any say in.

[Esna Pitoojee]

Alright, so here's something else I've been thinking about, seeing as hw it get referenced so much in RP:

What about increased NPC traffic, both at stargates and stations, and being comprised of more than a couple of types of industrials or cruisers we see in "convoys" today?

To expand on this, what about "hidden" NPC stargates at scannable sites in lowsec? Rather than being a stargate you could transit, this would allow the user to hit up NPC convoys using these stargates for potential goods and/or shiny empire drops?

In either case, I'd suggest that a major revamp of Convoy AI, ship types available, and potential loot tables would be needed, as their current "fly away from a station at subwarp speeds until they drop off grid" behavior is obiously open to abuse. Similarly, while the ship types and loot we have now would be suitable for smaller convoys, I'd be interested in seeing larger convoys escorting freighters and/or advanced industrials with the potential of better/higher-value gear. Obviously these would have to be rarer to prevent significant devaluing of the good stuff...

[Hamish Grayson]

When I was doing the RP industrialist thing it would have been nice to have market data from a single station, solar system or constellation and not just a region.

[Matariki Rain]

A voice here in favour of public standings. I liked them. I miss the information they gave. Without them I'm even less inclined to grind standing.

[Caellach Marellus]

While I'd like public standings back, I'd like to see an overhaul first.

Certain factions still have positive and/or negative standings to one another where the reverse should be true, or they should be neutralised.

Also to help the NPE as Morwen was mentioning, the first gains toward any faction (up to somewhere between 1.0 and 2.0) should come from work through the faction's corporations. So if you run a few missions for x corp and you're 0.0 to both corp and faction, your first few missions will give you both faction and corporation standings (or a % of the corp standings as faction. So for every 1.0 gain there's a .1-.25 standing gain)

Whether or not that should come with a level of derivative standings (pro and con) I'm not sure. But it gives new players a foothold, by running one corporation they've unlocked themselves a few agents across the board and are able to quickly establish a character.

[lallara zhuul]

When you start a new character, you are given pre-set faction standings towards a number of the major factions, including the pirate ones. I'm pretty sure this is what he's talking about.

Added to the inability to create complex characters from the outset - in this case, starter schools that don't match your character's race, lack of equivalent 'starter' corps for factions not among the Big Four, this used to be a very disheartening prospect for the new guy who wanted to make (for example) an Ammatar loyalist or a Caldari dissident who's working for the Guristas, because not only would his/her character start in an inappropriate rookie corporation, but they would have pre-set standings that were based on loyalties the player didn't get to have any say in.

I don't see the problem here.

I don't think that you are 'supposed' to have a character with a background that spans years of actions in New Eden.

Everyone is equal when they start their career.

In EVE there is this great capacity in RP to actually have a history that consists of the choices of your character and very real actions that it has done within the sandbox of EVE.

In EVE the fact that all RP was very real, in the sense that it required you to actually to do something in game, was why I was interested in it.

Not because I could godmode a Mary Sue to a spaceship.

As a GM on PnP RPGs the kind of players that have spent ages making background stories for themselves where they explain all the choices that they have made in their previous life before the campaign starts have always annoyed me.

Not because of their personalities, or that I felt that it was a waste of time.

It was because they were playing by themselves instead of interacting with the world and the people inhabiting it.

The penny that dropped for me was that I think this is how CCP feels.

They created the world, the background story, it has been filled with other players and NPC entities.

They created the 'campaign' for the players to be in the 0.0

The lowest priority for CCP are the people that have the inclination to play by themselves.

Not in the 'campaign' or with the world.

Hence, very little background information.

EDIT: Had a penny drop.