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Author Topic: Templar One [[Spoilers]]  (Read 40504 times)

Aldrith Shutaq

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #180 on: 10 Jul 2012, 16:12 »

Thank you Lallara. Exactly how I have felt but haven't had the time to put into words.

Having stories that are 'out-there' in New Eden need to be the exception, not the norm. I, as an Amarr RP'er, am very unhappy with having a [spoiler]secret AI meglomaniac clone zombie that wants to kill all of humanity to bring peace to the cluster[/spoiler] for my Empress. If Aldrith knew the 'truth' according to Tony G, or for that the entire Empire, instant civil war. Aldrith might be ignorant IC, but I'm not. It ends up feeling like the entire fictional civilization I have dedicated my character to protecting is hollow and pointless.

All I am saying is that I signed up for a civilization controled by theocracy, medieval-esque power politics and principle, not the alternitive offered by a maverick writer. It feels forced, not just on to me, but in general. It's just not authentic in any way; everything with Tony G seems like it was done for the lol's and not because he takes the universe as a realistic setting that has people playing in it. It's a cheesy b-grade sci-fi movie script now, which makes us all cheesy b-grade actors.

Bleh.
« Last Edit: 10 Jul 2012, 16:17 by Aldrith Shutaq »
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #181 on: 10 Jul 2012, 16:17 »

You forgot space-lesbian, Ald.

She's one of those too.
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3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Aldrith Shutaq

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #182 on: 10 Jul 2012, 16:18 »

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.
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Ken

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #183 on: 10 Jul 2012, 16:19 »

It's just Meh.

Nah.

Because this:

Giving the roleplayers a possibility to spend hours upon hours on speculating on how different cultures evolved into what they were and what kind of different branches of social evolution within those cultures could thrive without being decimated by the dominant one.

...you could use common sense and current scientific development as basis of exploring a living breathing New Eden with your imagination and you could share it with others without magical handwaving or social cliques to justify your views.

still happens.  Reference: these forums.

Like PvP, nothing in EVE in consensual, including RP and the storyline.  Doesn't mean you can't shoot back.  And it certainly doesn't mean the setting has less potential because of one author's mangled validations for new game mechanics like faction warfare and DUST.  The execution of the TEA storyline advancement through downtime events beyond all player control was amateurish.  The book was scarcely any better.  I haven't read T1 and I won't, but I have no expectations for its greatness.  And yet neither book has destroyed the setting.  They've simply added new elements to it.

It's a big cluster.  In some parts of it, I can accept that absurd things happen from time to time... things like secret Minmatar fleets appearing from nowhere to deck CONCORD and then invade the Empire.  And there are others like zombie empresses and whatever.  Those things haven't, however, destroyed all the smaller-scale wonders that were already there nor need they threaten those new ones that are born every day from player imaginations and interactions.  Saying that TonyG ruined everything in New Eden makes about as much sense as saying George W. Bush ruined everything on Earth.  He was stupid.  A cartoon.  He made plenty of mistakes and we still have to deal with some of them, but life goes on and there is still a lot of cool shit in the world to enjoy and cool people to enjoy it with.
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Aldrith Shutaq

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #184 on: 10 Jul 2012, 16:41 »

Quote
It's a big cluster.  In some parts of it, I can accept that absurd things happen from time to time... things like secret Minmatar fleets appearing from nowhere to deck CONCORD and then invade the Empire.  And there are others like zombie empresses and whatever.  Those things haven't, however, destroyed all the smaller-scale wonders that were already there nor need they threaten those new ones that are born every day from player imaginations and interactions.  Saying that TonyG ruined everything in New Eden makes about as much sense as saying George W. Bush ruined everything on Earth.  He was stupid.  A cartoon.  He made plenty of mistakes and we still have to deal with some of them, but life goes on and there is still a lot of cool shit in the world to enjoy and cool people to enjoy it with.

And yet the way I hear it the players were once upon a time involved in the greater storyline. Had I been around during the time of Artico's trial I'd have wept for the epicness. Now what do we RP'ers have to look forward to? Chit-chat in the Summit and space lesbian drama while zombie Empress does her thing, as much as my character might want to help or hinder her. Hoo-f'in-ray, I am a powerless small fish next to this super-weapon wielding sex toy.

How about a live event where some people have to go get the super weapon for her? Or an arc where we might possibly uncover the truth about her? If we're not going to be involved in big world-shifting events and personalities we might as well not pay attention to them, like most players do. I haven't read a single one of the EVE books simply for the reason I don't want to know.

We as RP'ers have a special relationship with the PF that other players do not have. A huge chunk of our gaming experience is based in it, and I do not like it when that chunk is turned completely on its head. To me it's as though CCP suddenly made Amarr ships missle specialized. It's just... wat.
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BloodBird

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #185 on: 10 Jul 2012, 16:59 »

Thank you Lallara. Exactly how I have felt but haven't had the time to put into words.

Having stories that are 'out-there' in New Eden need to be the exception, not the norm. I, as an Amarr RP'er, am very unhappy with having a [spoiler]secret AI meglomaniac clone zombie that wants to kill all of humanity to bring peace to the cluster[/spoiler] for my Empress. If Aldrith knew the 'truth' according to Tony G, or for that the entire Empire, instant civil war. Aldrith might be ignorant IC, but I'm not. It ends up feeling like the entire fictional civilization I have dedicated my character to protecting is hollow and pointless.

All I am saying is that I signed up for a civilization controled by theocracy, medieval-esque power politics and principle, not the alternitive offered by a maverick writer. It feels forced, not just on to me, but in general. It's just not authentic in any way; everything with Tony G seems like it was done for the lol's and not because he takes the universe as a realistic setting that has people playing in it. It's a cheesy b-grade sci-fi movie script now, which makes us all cheesy b-grade actors.

Bleh.

Welcome to how the rest of the cluster feels about Tony's touch on whatever empire they are part of.

I don't even want to begin with how I feel about the fuck-ups on the Fed, and I'm also rather unhappy about the Amarr. TG clearly hates religion and had no compunctions against pissing all over the Amarr to point that out.

In short, until there are direct examples of his work in-game, or in the news or whatever way I can see and touch in-character, none of his BS happened. None. There were NO news about Pike's landing. Never happened, etc.
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Ulphus

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #186 on: 10 Jul 2012, 17:07 »

In short, until there are direct examples of his work in-game, or in the news or whatever way I can see and touch in-character, none of his BS happened. None. There were NO news about Pike's landing. Never happened, etc.

I wasn't sure about that, which is why I asked. So nobody knows (in character) that Ishukone is in a shooting fight with Heth yet?
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Ken

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #187 on: 10 Jul 2012, 18:10 »

We as RP'ers have a special relationship with the PF that other players do not have. A huge chunk of our gaming experience is based in it, and I do not like it when that chunk is turned completely on its head. To me it's as though CCP suddenly made Amarr ships missle specialized. It's just... wat.

I find the setting of New Eden uniquely detailed and appreciate it as a somewhat dystopian sci-fi world devoid of ridged foreheads and blue skins.  In truth, however, the setting could be any place or any time if the narrative were good enough.  I think I enjoy RP primarily for the stories that develop from conflicts between player characters as a result of their personalities and choices.  I value this part of RP much more than the in-character posing I have to do in order to integrate any particular character within the backdrop of EVE PF.  In that way, maybe I don't think there is a special relationship between myself as an RPer and the PF, as you do. 

Remember that neither the major TEA/T1 characters like the Empress nor any character of epic story arc-shaping influence has ever been controlled by a player.  The elections and ascensions and smaller events played out in the early days depended on community involvement, just as the recent incursions did.  For me, PF provides the stage and the props.  The world my mind plays in thrives on the actors and the lines and the stage direction at levels at least a few tiers below the grand council chambers and situation rooms of the empires with all their necessary gravitas and cookery of :important events:.

How about a live event where some people have to go get the super weapon for her? Or an arc where we might possibly uncover the truth about her? If we're not going to be involved in big world-shifting events and personalities we might as well not pay attention to them, like most players do.

My point is that I don't need to fly in a fleet on the way to recover Item X to stop Enemy Y in order to save Planet Z because CCP Actor A said so in local chat in order to come away from RP experiences feeling entertained and fulfilled.  It could be fun, certainly, and I would love to do something like that more often, but I don't find it necessary to enjoy the setting or the game.  The fact that such things do not happen very often at all does not diminish my enjoyment. 

Very few people in real life will ever find themselves personally involved in world-shaping events in such a way that their own actions affect the outcome.  EVE, like many escapisms, offers that experience, but it does so rarely.  Often the terms of such engagements involve player alliances and nullsec politics rather than the next evolution in PF events.  Just like non-RPing players who dream of the day when they might play out their fantasies of making choices of epic and lasting consequence (such as those described in the "Causality" video), we RPers dream of the day when we will shape the PF in such a way. 

Maybe someday you'll get that chance.  The vast majority of players won't.  It is instead the smaller choices of the second, the minute, the hour, and the day, that we have to work with.  I don't think they have any less potential to be thrilling or meaningful or simply worth the time just because of their scale.  Forget about the zombie cyborg empress and her idiotic plans.  She is a weak character built on a shallow premise: shock value and cartoonish conspiracy.  She and everything else like her in the PF, all the over-the-top crap of bloated importance TonyG gave us, is there for one purpose: they are excuses.  Spit on someone, draw swords, and conduct :drama:.  Or smile instead.  But please, for the love of the game, don't tie your happiness to TonyG's pen or CCP's schizophrenia.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #188 on: 10 Jul 2012, 19:05 »

But please, for the love of the game, don't tie your happiness to TonyG's pen or CCP's schizophrenia.

Yes, it saddens me to see people losing their EVE RP fire because of the books. They're about 0.01% of the entire game world.

For example, after 4 years of fighting as a militia capsuleer, Seri has come to realize that the current war is perpetual because of the merchants-of-death concept, how the capsuleer economy functions, or whatever. While he doesn't doubt senior Caldari would love to destroy/conquer the Federation, he also realizes that fighting against that will just serve some ebil plutocrats.

Most of the time I see characters decide to go pirate, but to me that makes as much sense as a US soldier quitting the Army to go join some Somalians in the Indian ocean, rather than just settling down in some peaceful state for another life. I don't see why it has to be SERVE YOUR EMPIRE OR ELSE. Okay, so it's a bit easier to be a Gallentean without being a Feddy, but there's more to the empires than their leaders or the stories in the books.

So, I've decided Seriphyn can still be a Federation officer while doing other things that aren't involved in the main storyline. I worldbuild, as I'm currently doing on the IGS, and so can other people. I dunno. Just because we think that Congress are a bunch of retards, doesn't mean we'll all stop living in the United States. Stop pinning your characters to these big NPCs. Make your characters organic creations of the universe. Seriphyn is a man, father, and soldier. That's his essence. He just happened to be born in the Gallente Federation.
« Last Edit: 10 Jul 2012, 19:09 by Seriphyn »
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #189 on: 10 Jul 2012, 20:45 »

Largely "What Ken said" about roleplay.

I'd like to know how things are going with the Tribal Council and some other plot lines that were left hanging in 2009, but that's a matter for a handful of news items, not live events.

I'm slightly allergic to CCP-led live events. I realise there are others who like them, but I'm keen to make the point to CCP that having CCP support RP in EVE doesn't mean it should burn out its staff dealing directly with a few handfuls of us. It can have an impact with a much more reasonable cost/benefit ratio by progressing things that we can then, ourselves, turn into actions and debates.

In particular, it'd be nice to unblock some things. As Ulf has intimated already the Ishukone plot in Templar One is going to be quite significant... when it happens. I'm guessing the reveals for things like that are on hold until DUST is released, but with the current beta supposedly cast as Mordu's trials--presumably happening after the events of Templar One--it's a messy business for the timeline. Things like that block or drain energy and enthusiasm. I can see how CCP would end up there. I'd appreciate a bit of time to stitch something together so we know which bits of what will surely become public knowledge are actually in the public arena at any given time.
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Syylara/Yaansu

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #190 on: 10 Jul 2012, 21:09 »

Most of the time I see characters decide to go pirate, but to me that makes as much sense as a US soldier quitting the Army to go join some Somalians in the Indian ocean, rather than just settling down in some peaceful state for another life.

I do agree with your larger overall point here, however, you're not too far off the mark.  Mercenary outfits (who now go by the innocuous title "Private Security Contractors") have been backing regimes in Africa and Central Asia for decades.  Many of them are run by former high-ranking officers or civilian administrators and filled with veteran soldiers getting paid 5-20 times what they made in their respective militaries.  While "piracy" might not quite be the right word for it, there's certainly a lot of cases where their activities contribute to human suffering.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #191 on: 11 Jul 2012, 01:24 »

Ken, for better or worse the Emperor/Empress defines the Empire.

That is how the Amarrian religion works.
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Ken

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #192 on: 11 Jul 2012, 06:35 »

Ken, for better or worse the Emperor/Empress defines the Empire.

That is how the Amarrian religion works.

Please tell me you don't really think my statements were born out of ignorance of that fact.
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Malcolm Khross

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #193 on: 11 Jul 2012, 08:40 »

Ken, for better or worse the Emperor/Empress defines the Empire.

That is how the Amarrian religion works.

It should be noted that the majority of capsuleers and indeed the majority of citizens in the Empire are not going to be privy to the Empress' every day dealings and drug-induced lesbian orgies. Given that anyone who attempts to bring such things to light will likely be silenced (a certain Paladin, for instance or any of the handmaidens involved).

Let's say your capsuleer did catch wind of it, or it becomes public knowledge somehow, use it is an opportunity!

"Behold, denizens of the Empire! Witness how the temptations of sin can affect even the mightiest among us! Heed the words of the Scriptures:

"The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited.
Be Careful. Pure Thought is the Instigator of Sin.
Be Watchful. Free Thought is the Begetter of Disorder.
Be Respectful. Uniform Thought is the Way of Life.
The Mercy of our Emperor is Limitless. His Rule is Benign and Righteous. His Love is Perpetual."
- The Scriptures, Book I, The Code of Demeanor


See now how our Empress has fallen! See how she was placed into this position in spite of our religious precepts! See how her return, while it may have once been a boon of God, has been allowed to pervert and decay the righteousness of our Empire! It is time, brother and sisters, it is time to right the wrongs, rectify injustices and purge these sins from our Holy Empire!"

You could even go on about how the recent troubles in the warzone and the difficulties plaguing the Empire are a direct judgment from God on the unrighteousness of the Empire because of the Empress' hidden sins and make a giant campaign about how such corruption must be rife in other higher circles of the Imperial Hierarchy and so on, so forth. Turn the Empress into the fall girl for the Empire's recent troubles, etcetera.

That's not to say it isn't frustrating that this kind of stuff gets written and accepted by CCP and there's nothing wrong with saying, "Well, until I see evidence of it in game or news articles or whatever, then it simply didn't happen." But be thinking about the great ways you can jump on this kind of conspiracy and twist it into fun RP angles and conflict instead of letting it defeat you.
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Templar One [[Spoilers]]
« Reply #194 on: 02 Aug 2012, 16:57 »

So I'd avoided this thread until I could read first TEA and then this. And so when my computer broke and I bought a shiny Kindle Fire to kill time with, those were among my first two purchases. Reading them for the first time back to back was probably the best way to do it. After seeing first-hand the brutality (and occasional babality) inflicted on EVE canon and the English language in TEA, T1 was...really not that bad. It did a lot of good work walking back the rage-inducing absurdities of the former:

  • Jamyl isn't psychic.
  • The Broker's apparently stopped molesting the laws of causality (unless he just took over Sansha's brain)
  • The Elders too, for that matter, although of course the sort of things they'd be machinating don't get much screen time.
  • The Enheduanni aren't actually the masters of the universe, just nursing home attendants who ended up with delusions of grandeur from too many video games. And not even playing themselves, just watching their charges play them.
  • FW is a real war, with real consequences that prompt action from the major players involved in it. (Admittedly, much of this work had already been done.)
  • Player capsuleers actually seem to exist and have some effect in the world.
I think the most important reason this is more successful than its predecessor is that TEA was a book where everything went according to Plan, until someone else's Plan required it to fail. In T1, everyone's plan failed to some degree or another. From the snowball of bad choices that was the attempt on Heth's life to CONCORD's inability to destroy a single prototype to the Other being unable to keep Jamyl Sarum from violently ending the debacle that the Templar program turned out to be for the Amarr Empire. And they didn't just catastrophically fail either. There were partial successes, followed by setbacks and reversals that weren't entirely predictable, even knowing that the end result is the status quo of EVE Online today.

Of course, the gender politics still range from sketchy to deplorable, and it adds very little in the way of structure, texture, or even fluff to RP within the game we know, and it sure would be nice if there were less reliance on threats of bodily harm to family members as a dramatic motivator...

Other assorted comments:
THANATOS is cool, because an active CONCORD is so much more interesting than one that sits around waiting to get blowed up by plot.

Did anyone else notice the voice warning Lt. Col. Linden away from Myoklar was callsign Hawkeye...just like Cpt. Lears in the Moros?

What happened to Mordu the Younger? (Or Téa for that matter. The rest of the damn Retford crew showed up, why not her?)

Speaking of Mordu, I want to commission his haberdasher.

And give Mack a hug. Poor guy.
« Last Edit: 02 Aug 2012, 17:46 by Z.Sinraali »
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