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[Jakiin]

@Casiella

When a single guy ERPs with a married woman, or two married players do so, it just seems a bit dodgy? I don't know myself, I have chosen to ignore these issues and just go with it anyway :S...kinda bad idea. These moral issues seem to be alleviated with FTB and players of the same sex.

Underlines added to draw attention, though it seems a bit more demanding than I wanted. Whatever.

I'm not sure that Seri was talking about cybering in general so much as the fidelity of someone who's in an IRL relationship engaging in an ERP relationship, which is what I was responding to. If I'm right then it's less an issue of "People who RP as X are jerks" and more of a meta-game discussion.

Though of course I could be wrong and he could in fact be trying to launch a moral crusade against erotic role play overall, in which case I wag my finger.

[Casiella]

Well, yes, but my point remains, just with a slight condition on X. I don't think the conversation starts off well by immediately calling into question the moral standing of other players, do you?

Again, Seri may not have intended it quite in that way, but it certainly read that way to me.

[Jakiin]

Well if they didn't want to be called on it, they shouldn't be such filthy heathen dogs 

 

Seriously though, agreed. We're trying to make this a place of level headed discussion if I'm not mistaken, and that will involve thinking about each statement at least twice. Quid pro quo, Sereeph, quid quo pro.

Is going to hell forever for contrived and ill-fitting movie references.

[Zuzanna Alondra]

@Casiella

When a single guy ERPs with a married woman, or two married players do so, it just seems a bit dodgy? I don't know myself, I have chosen to ignore these issues and just go with it anyway :S...kinda bad idea. These moral issues seem to be alleviated with FTB and players of the same sex.

This is even true if the 'relationship' you're RPing out is entirely non-sexual or just FTB. In some cases in can be especially true, since your partner might decide that if there's no sex imperative then it's an entirely emotional thing (Whether this is true or not) and feel even more betrayed.

Just re-quoting what sounds word for word like a conversation held over the dinner table at my house more then once.

The results of that conversation turning out to say, "You can read all the romance novels and erotic porn you want hun... " because of the reason Jakiin mentioned.

But he knows I love my RP and finally realized it's just fun and started playing with me (not in Eve) as mentioned in Miz's little thread about sexual lifestyles where Havo quoted me for posterity.  (The big bully - I should have deleted the post faster or not posted it here - rather PM'd Miz... *teases*)

[Inara Subaka]

Well, I'll throw my 2ISK in as a "space lesbian™" RPer.

OOC, I'm a conservative WASP. I roleplay in any game to stretch my mind, Inara is actually the first female character I've ever RPed as. My intent when I started RPing with her was to be very different from myself, force myself to see things from a perspective I don't typically use.  There's only a few things that Inara and I actually agree on, and even those things are for very different reasons.

There was no intent on making her a "space lesbian™", that just happened through RP. I had her react to the situation as I felt she would react. And for the record, she's just 'not picky' about gender.



If it was about 'wish fulfillment' I promise I wouldn't be playing as a female character .

EDIT: FTB is my best friend in all RP relationships. Conversation leading up to FTB are important, and after I go get something to eat and whatnot, the after FTB conversations are important. I don't need to write out or read what my characters do in the bedroom.

[Mizhara]

Whether or not it's Wish Fulfillment RP depends on the players behind the characters, not the actions other characters see during public RP. It, like almost all other RP, stands and falls on IC/OoC separation. What would your character do? Miz herself fell for Misan Pal'taek. Someone very different from herself, in so many ways. (Not that I know of anyone who matches Miz, for that matter). She pursued Misan for quite a while, and she was obvious in her intent and desire. After a couple of months, or more, can't recall... She managed to fell her prey.

Gender had nothing to do with it. Personality was the key. Miz and Misan's views and ways moved against eachother will strike sparks and be rather... abrasive. Miz was fascinated by the few similarities and the other stark opposites. This means that to Miz, Misan was an enormously interesting person. Of course, that she was aesthetically pleasing didn't hurt either, but Misan could have been a battlescarred Brutor male for that matter, as long as the personality remained. Same interest.

Personally, from the players point of view? I'd never go for someone like Misan. Too... rogueish. Too shady and willing to make compromises for various reasons. Not my cup of tea. Hardly wish fulfillment RP there, don't you agree?

I can't speak for others, but I believe a lot of the 'spaec lezbiunz' RP have nothing to do with wish fulfillment or fapping men. It's roleplaying, and good RP at that, if there's more to it than '/me starts making pflblblblfft noises between your legs.'

By all means, do the ERP. That can be great characterization and relationship RP too. Just make sure there's a little more to it than that.

[Rodj Blake]

I don't have a problem with the thought of space lesbians.

I do have a problem with people trying to RP romances that just wouldn't happen with their characters (ie public cross-factional ones).

[Laerise [PIE]]

I don't have a problem with the thought of space lesbians.

I do have a problem with people trying to RP romances that just wouldn't happen with their characters (ie public cross-factional ones).

At least they have a strangely comedic value... or had, until it aparentl became fashionable 

[Saxon Hawke]

I do have a problem with people trying to RP romances that just wouldn't happen with their characters (ie public cross-factional ones).

O Romeo, Romeo! wherefore art thou Romeo?
Deny thy father and refuse thy name;
Or, if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love,
And I'll no longer be a Capulet.
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

tl:dr: Cross-factional love does happen. However, let's not forget the last line of the play:

"For never was a story of more woe Than this of Juliet and her Romeo."

[Casiella]

"Cross-factional romance" shouldn't even present an issue in every single case. I don't think most folks will give a flip about a Brutor male and a Jin-Mei female, for example, or a Sebiestor punk chick and some Gallente stallion.

As my RL marriage crosses national and racial boundaries, I fail to understand why "cross-factional" relationships "just wouldn't happen," particularly among a social class that has power and wealth beyond most any other individuals in the cluster.

[Mizhara]

Indeed. I don't see a problem with cross-factional relationships. I see a problem with cross-ideological and cross-hostile boundaries relationships. Matari freedomfighter/ex-slave whatever, shacking up with a Holder for instance. Caldari Navy zealot/loyalist/whatever shacking up with a Gurista Pirate. That kind of thing.

And more importantly, what does get a bit annoying is that people don't react to such things much. "Oh, it's their RP, and pointing it out could mean inconvenience in my own RP. Better not mention it."

[Laerise [PIE]]

Indeed. I don't see a problem with cross-factional relationships. I see a problem with cross-ideological and cross-hostile boundaries relationships. Matari freedomfighter/ex-slave whatever, shacking up with a Holder for instance. Caldari Navy zealot/loyalist/whatever shacking up with a Gurista Pirate. That kind of thing.

And more importantly, what does get a bit annoying is that people don't react to such things much. "Oh, it's their RP, and pointing it out could mean inconvenience in my own RP. Better not mention it."

Thats exactly what I meant, apologies for not being 100% clear.  


Edit (added new content follows) :

Regarding the later statement, some of the most interresting and lasting RP arcs I got involved in came about exactly because it was not convenient for either party - which imnsho makes for a much better IC motivator than happy bunny land

[Myyona]

I have no plans of letting Myyona engage in any kind of romantic or sexual relationship with any gender as I quite frankly have no time for that with all the other stuff I do in this game. Also, another important IC reason ties into Myyona's actual situation: Unlike many others, Myyona's original body has never been destroyed* but are in stasis at a medical station. The only clone jumping Myyona ever did was not because of death but to preserve this original body. I cannot really imagine how she must feel when visiting her self, looking at the physical scars and bruises from her childhood, in another body. She keeps telling her self that the current body is only temporary at that one day, when everything is over, she will go back to her real self, make family and die of old age.

I generally feel the introduction of jump clones, while being a nice game feature, screwed up a lot of the philosophy regarding death and recloning. I guess that is why I have never seen a chronicle touch that subject.

*: assuming pod pilots do not have their body destroyed during training time at the academy.

[Myyona]

Though, I think Jowen has a wife and maybe even children. With all the time he spends at stations and managing production and research efforts he has plenty of time for that. Though, what ever he does in station when I am not around is really not any of my business.

[Zuzanna Alondra]

To stir a different view outside of romance - since not all wishes are romantic -

How much are we playing out other desires - or fears in our lives?

Zu made a comment early in her career as a pod pilot on the IGS that she would rather throw herself on a chair and miscarry then have a child born into slavery - which immedately got me several concerned folks who had heard I was pregunaunt and wondered  if I had miscarried (Lisa's 6 wks old and squirming in my arms as I'm trying to type and the reason I rarely undock as much as I would like anymore)

Little known fact Zu had lost a child to the boy being born premature and having bad lungs for it.  But in the birth she lost so much blood she nearly died herself and her uterus was damaged bad enough she had been told she was barren (unless she had a death wish of course).

I could easily in hindsight argue with myself that this was me putting in a character quirk as a way with dealing with my fears associated with carrying a child myself.  Zu at char gen was barren - I was trying to get pregnant and having little luck.  Then over time as I developed her I came up with the why.  Did I realize at the time I was reflecting my own fears?  No - but I was.

Side bit - I hear a few folks they weren't fulfilling OOC wishes - which also brings in mind the idea of what things do we "let" our characters do that is the most unlike us to try to stay true to the character?

I know I personally have had Zu get in rather heated "chats" with Havohej about different things the corp has done even though I OOCly helped think it up.  I've had a character say NO to an idea that I thought was brilliant OOCly because she would say no.