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Author Topic: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)  (Read 23317 times)

Chell Charon

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #120 on: 27 Jun 2012, 04:59 »

" It's not rape when it happens to a slave. Then again it's not rape when you do it to a slaverhound either. Both are equally repugnant signs of moral deviancy."

Thats pretty much Mensha's view on this. It's not that a holder can not do what they please with their slaves, it's what it tells of the holders character. -Not to mention the sheer arrogance or incompetence in failing to keep it from being found out..
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #121 on: 27 Jun 2012, 08:18 »

Quoted from the EVE-Wiki article on Amash-Akura, the founder of the Amarr Empire:

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As the ruler of Dam-Torsad, Amash-Akura instituted several reforms. He placed governance of the city in the hands of the church and made worship mandatory, ruled the precepts be laid down in the Scriptures - giving aid to the pious and striking down heretics - and he strictly enforced a code of morals on his soldiers, forbidding them from rape, looting, or mistreatment of enemies.

I'm not claiming that this has any bearing on current Amarrian law, but I think it firmly establishes that in Amarrian culture, rape - even against enemies - is a bad thing.

Good observation. I want to prod at it though:

-- Military discipline matters in its own right. This could be focused on the discipline of the military, rather than the effects on others.

-- Are enemies--or whoever, since this presumably applies to locals as well--considered people with full rights, or are they prisoners-of-war-in-waiting-for-slavery? If they're full people, rape seems to be considered bad. If they're slaves who haven't been handed out to their new owners yet, there could be an interest in maintaining their health and value.

-- What do you think counts as "mistreatment of enemies"? Enslaving them was okay, with all that went with that, yes?

I can, however, definitely see some Amarrians adopting this sort of code or approach in civilian life.

The enemies of Amarr are by definition not part of the Faith so they are neither heathens, nor heretics [edit : they are either heathens, or heretics is what I meant]. I would even argue that for the Amarr, they are held in lesser esteem than even slaves. Slaves, who are part of the Faith, even at the lowest level. To me, if it is not ok to rape even enemies of Amarr, then it would be even less ok to rape slaves that are already part of Amarrian society, all of this related to that omnipresent pyramidal societal amarrian ladder.

Unless of course, it is a way to educate them...

Of course it could also be argued that there is some kind of honorable part in not raping enemies (some code of conduct in war), unrelated to the treatment of slaves.
« Last Edit: 27 Jun 2012, 17:39 by Lyn Farel »
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #122 on: 27 Jun 2012, 15:36 »

I'd say a heathen is - from the Amarrian perspective - simply someone who's not embracing the Amarrian religion. A heretic is someone who distorts Amarrian religion. Thus, enemies of Amarr can be heathans as well as heretics - a heretic is in fact by necessity an enemy of Amarr, while the same is not true for a heathen.

I'd agree though: I can't think of rape being considered as something else than being in itself immoral (as it is kind of the type of distortion of Amarrian religously motivated ethics like Sani Sabikism is a distortion of it in general).

As to the 'chosen people':

"Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good.
 Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land.
 The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood.
 But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God.
 Thus they were saved and became God's chosen."

- The Scriptures, Book II 2:1

I think the important part here is, really, that God chose the Amarr not because they were Amarr, had a certain genetic trait or blood flowing in their veins: They became His chosen, because they had certain religious and moral qualities. It is these qualities that God seeks in people and he takes those up as his chosen people. Right makes Might (not the other way around: that would be the Sabikist distortion).

Otherwise an Amarrian holder couldn't fall from grace and into slavery, by definition. Amarrians are usually quite aware though, that they are not exempt from the need to behave in a faithful and god-fearing way. Compare the repeated admonishon in ther Scripture's that God is testing the Amarr again and again and they must show that they are deserving of his gifts.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #123 on: 27 Jun 2012, 17:46 »

Sorry I noticed that I wrote the opposite of what I actually wanted to write. I edited it in my previous post. Anyway it does not change my point on Amarrians (faithful) > Slaves (faithful) > Slaves (in processing of becoming faithful) > Heathens > Heretics.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #124 on: 28 Jun 2012, 06:06 »

Sorry to ignore what people have been inputting for the past nine pages, but the answer to the topic title is...

"Because if you play a slaver, the RP community will ostracize you and you can't play with them, of course!"
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #125 on: 28 Jun 2012, 16:47 »

Sorry to ignore what people have been inputting for the past nine pages, but the answer to the topic title is...

"Because if you play a slaver, the RP community will ostracize you and you can't play with them, of course!"

But there should be enough of them to play among themselves in a proper Amarrian environment, right?
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Makkal

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #126 on: 28 Jun 2012, 18:27 »

Sorry to ignore what people have been inputting for the past nine pages, but the answer to the topic title is...

"Because if you play a slaver, the RP community will ostracize you and you can't play with them, of course!"
I play a slaver and have had no trouble getting people to RP with me.

Heck, when Makkal announced she was going to execute that poor bastard with the sex tape and have a bunch of Caldari workers enslaved, I had tons of people trying to RP with me. 
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Seriphyn

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #127 on: 28 Jun 2012, 18:39 »

Hm, sounds like I'm just being a Summit cynic!
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Graelyn

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #128 on: 28 Jun 2012, 20:46 »

But there should be enough of them to play among themselves in a proper Amarrian environment, right?

Ugh!

Fuck no.

Can you imagine me and Vaari in a room for 20 minutes?

They'd have to sandblast him off the floor.
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Ulphus

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #129 on: 28 Jun 2012, 21:23 »

Can you imagine me and Vaari in a room for 20 minutes?

They'd have to sandblast him off the floor.

* Ulphus would pay for the security tape...
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #130 on: 28 Jun 2012, 21:55 »

Can you imagine me and Vaari in a room for 20 minutes?

They'd have to sandblast him off the floor.

* Ulphus would pay for the security tape...

You beat me to it. :)
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Aldrith Shutaq

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #131 on: 29 Jun 2012, 00:23 »

Really? Aldy would just pat him on the head, tuck him into bed and read Scriptures to him until he fell asleep.

Adorable old dude :3
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #132 on: 29 Jun 2012, 01:12 »

Sorry to ignore what people have been inputting for the past nine pages, but the answer to the topic title is...

"Because if you play a slaver, the RP community will ostracize you and you can't play with them, of course!"
I play a slaver and have had no trouble getting people to RP with me.

Heck, when Makkal announced she was going to execute that poor bastard with the sex tape and have a bunch of Caldari workers enslaved, I had tons of people trying to RP with me.

of course: 60% of new eden would like to be executed by being sex taped. Now, did you ever try to RP with people without agitating them by enslaving people, but simply to be friends with people and have a good time with them, drink a tea, maybe join their corp?

At some point you'll notice: If you play a slaver, people will ostracize you for it because it's bad and their toons don't want to accept slavery as a fact within the Empire. (Unless they are criminals doing far worse things or are some of the few slavers themselves. Amarrian RP is definitely at a low.)
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Makkal

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #133 on: 29 Jun 2012, 02:41 »

Can you imagine me and Vaari in a room for 20 minutes?

I'd love to see Vaari in a room with any sane character.

of course: 60% of new eden would like to be executed by being sex taped.

Perverts!  :eek:

Quote
Now, did you ever try to RP with people without agitating them by enslaving people, but simply to be friends with people and have a good time with them, drink a tea, maybe join their corp?

Makkal mostly spends her nights chatting with people in the Summit. I've found the average person there rather... friendly.

Quote
At some point you'll notice: If you play a slaver, people will ostracize you for it because it's bad and their toons don't want to accept slavery as a fact within the Empire. (Unless they are criminals doing far worse things or are some of the few slavers themselves. Amarrian RP is definitely at a low.)

There's probably lots of RP going on that I'm not aware of but you are. My ignorance makes it seem as though people are cool with Makkal because I don't see where they're excluding her.
« Last Edit: 29 Jun 2012, 02:45 by Makkal »
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Seriphyn

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Re: Where have all the Slavers gone? (Woe is Me)
« Reply #134 on: 29 Jun 2012, 05:19 »

My ignorance makes it seem as though people are cool with Makkal because I don't see where they're excluding her.

Heh...the mystery of having chat channels instead of physical locales in EVE RP...
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