Much more can and likely will come of this, and it will be interesting to see how this goes, especially as the Nefantar delegate seems to be rather the religious type.
Minmatar ArcI wouldn't call it an arc so much as a bend with rusty, razor-sharp protrusions.
Yeah, right "QA Shield Extender" fits, well done ccp :bash:
The minmatar RP'ers get a victory handed to them, once again, really now CCP, well done.
Let me guess, if there should be an amarr delegation at some point in the future it'll fly untanked impairors...
Falcon just said that they won't use them again. (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2612118#post2612118) Which is a good thing. EVE is a sandbox; regardless of if it's RPers or Goons doing it, player actions should be able to have effect. There are much better ways to continue the storyline than railroading through invincible plot NPCs.
I don't think there is.
Actually I think that CCP knows that there isn't.
Lets go with a hypothetical here.
A capsuleer kills a head of state of any nation that is part of the CONCORD who is not a capsuleer and that head of state gets deaded for good.
That nation pulls its support for the freedom and the unique status for capsuleers through CONCORD.
Capsuleers are nothing short of terrorists.
(Everyone already knows that.)
Clone contracts get pulled out, capsuleers get hunted to extinction by faction capsuleers that still have their clone contracts.
Double zero alliances die out because they do not have the technology to create pods.
EVE 2.0 comes out where all the players are just mission runners and market manipulators.
I think that CCP does not want to go down that road, yet.
In the end, we did not think that making these guys killable added much to the storyline. If you killed some random NPC who we've never mentioned before and we then replace him with another random NPC we've never mentioned before (or simply say "He cloned!") I'm not sure how that creates interesting interaction beyond "These groups came to disrupt the procession". It's the same for just having them sit in a station the entire time (and that's also far less visually impactful). Either way you cut it, the actions are purely ceremonial.
Was reading the thread in the Live Events forum about this, and I have to post here and agree with a goon that posted his common sense idea. Falcon should have used a supercap, instead of using a devtanked battleship. An officer fit Hel or Ragnarok with a full Minmatar only fleet support would have been far more impressive anyways.
Was reading the thread in the Live Events forum about this, and I have to post here and agree with a goon that posted his common sense idea. Falcon should have used a supercap, instead of using a devtanked battleship. An officer fit Hel or Ragnarok with a full Minmatar only fleet support would have been far more impressive anyways.
But in Eve, there's no such thing as consequences : our characters can't be imprisoned, they can't die, they can't be harmed in any meaningful way -they just lose ships and isk : big deal.
But in Eve, there's no such thing as consequences : our characters can't be imprisoned, they can't die, they can't be harmed in any meaningful way -they just lose ships and isk : big deal.
CONCORD could always cancel the pilot's licence of any pilot attacking persons of sufficient importance i.e. megacorp CEOs, Tribal Leaders, Senators etc ...
That would provide meaningful consequences ...
The head of state could have used a body double. He could have survived on an escape pod. He could have traveled on an escort ship, while the big fancy ship was actually a decoy. He could travel in a covert ops ship.
There are many ways to avoid the death of a major actor NPC, whether they are a capsuleer or not, without simply making them invincible. Actor NPCs don't have to be stupid. They can expect ganking, and plan around it.
I don't give a crap if the ships were haxtanked or not. They could just as easily have flown caps that were effectively unkillable. What concerns me is that they actually undocked with unseeded dev modules on their ships.
If someone had fucked up, or if someone had somehow managed to blow them up, some of those modules would now be in the hands of players.
:|
First law of EVE online Lyn, of course I'm aware of this.
It's just very simple. If a Dev actor get's blown up in a massive fight evolving out of something they did or had to do, that's one thing, but in today's EVE pretty much anyone getting blown up, if the assailants wants them REALLY dead, there is but one universal answer; Alpha-stike.
In yesterday's event, if the actors were not near unkillable, a few of them would likely have exploded with ease. So the two extremes to be avoided, then;
Actors are impossible to kill. (Dev mods)
Actors are impossible to defend. (Sufficient alpha damage.)
The only way get around this would be to have some dev mods on the ships that would, say, give a Dev's BS the EHP of a well-tanked Dread, and allow them to be shot by anyone without CONCORD intervention - that way it's not so terribly easy to bring them down, and logistics can play a meaningful role, but they are not unbeatable, so that an escort or whatever is a valuable addition.
Ofc the problem then is that the defenders and attackers will need some way to fight each other as well, this can likely be achieved by getting anyone shooting at a dev actor flagged for limited engagement, and attacked by the defenders, the defenders are then flagged to attackers, and so on. OR have one dev 'lead' the defenders one one 'lead' the attackers, pre-flagging either groups to the other.
I dunno, many ideas, but it's up to CCP. I'm just on the view that as much as I don't want my sandbox violated, if it's so easy to kill any events as it seems to me, there is hardly any point showing up as an assister - you are bound to fail by default anyway. These two extremes HAVE to be avoided at any cost to maintain immersion and interest in doing them.
Having the actors in supercarrier's wouldnt have improved anything, I remember back in the old live events when it was Sansha the revenants had 90% resists and all that happened was PL hot droped them and that didnt make for a interesting live event.
After Asakai, though, any null power is going to be very careful in how they deploy supers.
After Asakai, though, any null power is going to be very careful in how they deploy supers.
Whatcha talkin' about, Isis?
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080720144710/eve/images/a/aa/Phobos.jpg)
No, they wouldn't. CCP derped and lost a devfrig a few months back, all they'll do is remove the item from the item from the player's hanger and maybe compensate them with a PLEX or something and say 'GJ Dude!'
After Asakai, though, any null power is going to be very careful in how they deploy supers.
Whatcha talkin' about, Isis?
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080720144710/eve/images/a/aa/Phobos.jpg)
:Cripes: your ego is almost to Mittani size. When you start VincentPryce.com and are looking for writers, let me know.
:cube:
Naw, it should be thephobos.com, otherwise we would get only people looking for classic horror movies. :D
Naw, it should be thephobos.com, otherwise we would get only people looking for classic horror movies. :D
Any movie involving our Vince would be an erotic horror movie.
As to the actual topic of the thread, I'd rather have a railroaded event that ties up a 4-5 year old arc that was dropped like a turd into the toilet, than leave it entirely unresolved because a bunch of people decided to shit on the events for shiny TTI killmails.
The resulting IGS thread made it all worth it even if not for resolving the arc. :lol:
2) Why were Ammatar loyalists escorting a republic Nefantar Delegate :?:
People seem to forget that Live Events are a privlege, not a right. I began playing this game right after Aurora popped, and I didn't get to see a live event until my third year of playing. So you know what? Fuck people who try to ruin them.
And screwing you over, because you want to screw something over, just to screw something over, is also perfectly valid from CCP's end.
Remember, you are renting a service from them. You don't actually own anything in the game. You pay your $15 or whatever each month, and you get the privilege of access to internet spaceship pixel pew pew. But none of it actually is yours despite that money.
So if CCP doesn't want to play nice with you for whatever reason, they are under absolutely no obligation to do so.
Is it fair? Nope.
Is that EVE? Yup.
The post by Vea on LE discussion board had some genuine points of concern.
The IGS post delivered naught but lulz.
I think this mynnna might get my CSM vote.
As an example I still recall the last Federation day, the first one to be announced by actual ISD reports, and the goons showed up in multiple T1 fit Tier3 BC's to... join the parade and chain and the fun? No. To blow up as many ships as possible, preferably the Navy issue Federation ships present. Gee, what fun.
... although it wouldn't take prior actions into account.
People appears extremely interested having their characters affect the setting, but very reluctant to have the setting affect their character. :|
It is only that if you use a disposable alt for such an act, your main or any character that matters to you will have zero consequence for the players actions.Some of us would be very happy to get those consequences on the characters that matter.
What happened to Koro, Boma and friends back in the Incursion event days is a good start.It was a sad day at the office when this was undone despite the extensive petition war and IC arguments with Dorgiers demanding the penalties stick (or at the least, give a -10 to the Republic if they insisted on taking away the concord -sec penalty).
Attack faction actors in highsec, receive appropriate but harsh standing penalties.
It is only that if you use a disposable alt for such an act, your main or any character that matters to you will have zero consequence for the players actions.
I am fine with there being consequences for a character. Any attempt, however, to apply consequences to a corp or alliance will just be metagamed so hard that (complete the sentence in the dirtiest way imaginable--in your head).
I'm saying GSF would metagame around it.
Not only that, but it would be possible to metagame another alliance into taking the fall for this stuff:
Goons make alts. Goons join say I-Red (hypothetical) and then gank some Caldari actor. Now, I-Red as an alliance can never dock in Caldari space again?
(Wait, I think I just came up with something . . . )
I'm saying GSF would metagame around it.
Not only that, but it would be possible to metagame another alliance into taking the fall for this stuff:
Goons make alts. Goons join say I-Red (hypothetical) and then gank some Caldari actor. Now, I-Red as an alliance can never dock in Caldari space again?
(Wait, I think I just came up with something . . . )
Kat did not suggest permanent banning from docking, but corporation and alliance security standings.
I'm saying GSF would metagame around it.
Not only that, but it would be possible to metagame another alliance into taking the fall for this stuff:
Goons make alts. Goons join say I-Red (hypothetical) and then gank some Caldari actor. Now, I-Red as an alliance can never dock in Caldari space again?
(Wait, I think I just came up with something . . . )
By you. Inventing a proposal in order to apply a reductio ad absurdum argument against it in order to justify your opinion is called 'straw-manning'. Even when not used to deliberately troll, it contributes nothing to a discussion and certainly doesn't strengthen the case it's intended to support.
I'm saying GSF would metagame around it.
Not only that, but it would be possible to metagame another alliance into taking the fall for this stuff:
Goons make alts. Goons join say I-Red (hypothetical) and then gank some Caldari actor. Now, I-Red as an alliance can never dock in Caldari space again?
(Wait, I think I just came up with something . . . )
Ganking dev actors has nothing to do with my suggestion at all, Isis. Please re-read it.
Secondly, we'd probably end up with negative sec status as an alliance anyways, as most members in most of our corps can't enter high-sec. RDC is probably the only corp with majority positive sec status, and that too is changing. Low-sec fighting takes a toll. In other words, you wouldn't achieve much by 'infiltrating us' to ruin our sec status... since it's already ruined.
R.e. corp rep blitz; That's what limited and full API keys are for. Send the key to the interviewer or CEO (and only one or the other). Interview and background check over, generate a new API, and you're on your way. Adopt a little of the meta into the RP game.
I have 4 threads over this particular subject going on. Plus numerous debates in game. I did not suggest this to begin with, I assure you.
I have 4 threads over this particular subject going on. Plus numerous debates in game. I did not suggest this to begin with, I assure you.
This could well be the problem. A debate is good and all, but people rapidly start losing interest and start getting irritated when you bring it up over and over and over again. Maybe try and centralise your posting a bit?
Goonswarm would cry unholy foul if they were slapped with an automatic criminal tag just by being part of that alliance. I can't say I'd support CCP arbitrarily slapping perma-criminal on an entire alliance anyways.
I would support it if there were certain game mechanics that would end up doing it to your alliance as a result of ingame actions over a period of time though. Simplest and most ham-fisted way would be to create alliance and corporation level security standings. The first based on member corporation's security status, and the second based on individual members. Maybe some sort of mean, median, or average. Or some more complicated formula.
To be 100% clear on something, CCP has already said collective alliance punishment is "not feasible".Just going to copy/paste from Live Events:
Which brings us back to the beginning of the discussion again.
- Repercussions will be metagamed around.
- Suicide attacks combined with tactical safespots make for a strike that is virtually impossible to counteract if you choose to subject yourself to it.
- There is no effective means for people - RPers or just other general interested people - to "push back" at a nullsec-size alliance trying to show up and blow stuff up for giggles.
So then, aside from make their ships invulnerable, what CAN the devs do to preserve the concept of an event without being silly-ganked every time?
So, if you want to defend against the hundred or so Goons that might show up on a good day, bring two hundred.You're not going to find 100 players available in the largest RPing alliances. Even the summit rarely has more then 50 people in it.
Hold the events in low sec, and use NPSI ROE. I would not complain about CCP cynojamming the system to keep out whatever, as cynojam mechanics are already available to sov alliances.I would be fine with this but all events can't be in lowsec.
Gank the gankers! You know there are Goons hanging about, it's not like there's a doubt what they are there for. Gank them first!This is completely infeasible and anyone with a lick of PVP knowledge knows it. The amount of firepower that would be required to alpha the goons alpha fleet is completely absurd and unreasonable to suggest realistically.
Or, war dec Goons!Now you're just being derpy.
stuff
you're not ganking an alpha fleet Rokh, you're ganking a gank-fit Talos. Huge difference.Gank the gankers! You know there are Goons hanging about, it's not like there's a doubt what they are there for. Gank them first!This is completely infeasible and anyone with a lick of PVP knowledge knows it. The amount of firepower that would be required to alpha the goons alpha fleet is completely absurd and unreasonable to suggest realistically.
stuff
I was going to systematically comment on what you suggested, but I don't think you really think they are good ideas. I think you're saying that because you are toeing the party line.
I am not going to write here why I think your words don't match your real beliefs, because I'm fairly sure commenting on your personality, motives, and habits here will get me catacombed.
you're not ganking an alpha fleet Rokh, you're ganking a gank-fit Talos. Huge difference.
You're expecting all the RPers in the game plus a bit more to show up in a unified doctrine fleet and then not care whatsoever about getting their ships CONCORDed.
I have said it before and will say it again: To expect a divided community to act as a unified military force is ridiculous. Stop.
You're expecting all the RPers in the game plus a bit more to show up in a unified doctrine fleet and then not care whatsoever about getting their ships CONCORDed.
I have said it before and will say it again: To expect a divided community to act as a unified military force is ridiculous. Stop.
Ask for help then. Maybe mail Marlona Sky:
"Hey, we think Goons are going to come and try and screw with this; any of you interested in screwing them first?"
Judging from the number of people that went halfway across the cluster to kill Goons at Asakai, I'm sure there is someone willing to come screw with Goons.
Ask for help then. Maybe mail Marlona Sky:
"Hey, we think Goons are going to come and try and screw with this; any of you interested in screwing them first?"
Judging from the number of people that went halfway across the cluster to kill Goons at Asakai, I'm sure there is someone willing to come screw with Goons.
There is a very big difference in traveling to go kill Goon supers and traveling to kill a suicide fleet that very few people care about
You're expecting all the RPers in the game plus a bit more to show up in a unified doctrine fleet and then not care whatsoever about getting their ships CONCORDed.One more thought on this: The solution is to unify. If the community is as fractured as you say, surely in the face of an external Goon threat people can come together. There are tools that can be used in the sandbox to counter actions that Goons might take. It's up to the players to make use of them.
I have said it before and will say it again: To expect a divided community to act as a unified military force is ridiculous. Stop.
Can we get the Discussion about whether CCP live events should all be killable to another thread? I'm actually very interested in the development of this story arc but it seems that the discussion is well off topic at this point.
I'm going to make a push to make sure there is a group of Goons at the next Live Event. Consider this your call to action. Try and stop me. :twisted:
*Throws down gauntlet, leaves.*
On the flipside, less reliance on CCP for roleplay opportunities and more creative interaction with other players would be a bonus.