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[orange]

As for the State, the Caldari Navy at least maintains an anti-homosexuality policy.

"Peunato, an extremely competent pilot, was forced out of the Caldari Navy when he revealed he was gay. Since joining the Guristas, Peunato has been instrumental in expanding their power and influence. Threat level: Deadly"

(Link)
Reading the text, it may not be an anti-homosexual policy.  Being forced out is different than being discharged.

It gets back to interpreting the language used, realizing just how big the entities we are discussing are, and moving beyond our day-to-day cultural references and bias.

If Peunato's unit consisted largely of personnel from more traditional corporations/backgrounds (Hyasyoda & Wirykomi), then the environment he was in could be very, very hostile.  Such an unit might conspire against him in an effort to force him out of the service.  It could have nothing to do with policy.

I think Zag touched on it: Essentially, the difference between the idea of 'State' culture and corporate culture.

Agree entirely.

[Lithium Flower]

Source, p. 113
"The corporate-controlled marriage system segregates members of opposite genders (same-sex marriage is neither recognized nor legal within Caldari borders, a frequent topic of controversy between the Caldari and considerably more liberal Gallente)."

[Lyn Farel]

One thing for sure, Source seems to remove the ambiguous out of everything.

[Jace]

Yes, it does. Thank god. It took the ambiguity out of some of the most annoyingly and repetitiously debated State topics that needed to be put to rest (same-sex marriage in the State, what kind of concept is Cold Wind, etc.).

[Katrina Oniseki]

Oh no, I guess us dirty nasty gays will just have to stop roleplaying Caldari, right? Should we swallow a bullet too?

I stopped caring what EVE lore said about homosexuality a long time ago. If you think Katrina should be ostracized for it, don't try to fuckin' roleplay with me.

Real simple isn't it?

You know what, nevermind.

[Havohej]

Oh no, I guess us dirty nasty gays will just have to stop roleplaying Caldari, right? Should we swallow a bullet too?

I stopped caring what EVE lore said about homosexuality a long time ago. If you think Katrina should be ostracized for it, don't try to fuckin' roleplay with me.

Real simple isn't it?

You know what, nevermind.

I do see your nevermind and your strikethroughs, so I don't expect an engagement here (not that one is really necessary from what I'm about to say), but:  Given that Katrina's not a part of the Navy, I don't see where her being a lesbian would be unplausible.  It's an everyday thing for people in positions of power to have socially unacceptable private lives, and for it to be ignored because of their social/political status.  Everyone just pretends it isn't a thing, lest they suffer repurcussions they'd much rather not suffer.

[Mizhara]

There's also the bit where capsuleers can basically just drop all pretenses anyway. If they want to remain loyal to their ideals/nations but discard the less idealistic bits, who the hell are going to do anything about it? We're eggers, anyone that's going to give a shit won't really be able to use the usual social tools of shunning, denying promotions or even firing people over such things.

The Caldari culture and even legal issues with homosexuality etc doesn't change that they'd have just as many homosexuals as all other nations (it's a rather human thing, not national thing after all), just more repression, denial or hiding of the fact. Caldari capsuleers are probably in the perfect situation to finally go "Fuck it, not going to keep pretending now, what the hell are they going to do or say that affects me?".

[Lyn Farel]

Yes, it does. Thank god. It took the ambiguity out of some of the most annoyingly and repetitiously debated State topics that needed to be put to rest (same-sex marriage in the State, what kind of concept is Cold Wind, etc.).

Perhaps, perhaps not. I wouldn't complain if it had been done from the beginning.

There you get into situations like what happened after TEA for most older caldari RPers, where the lore got shaken to a point that they all just got disgusted and left.

[purple]

Oh no, I guess us dirty nasty gays will just have to stop roleplaying Caldari, right? Should we swallow a bullet too?

I stopped caring what EVE lore said about homosexuality a long time ago. If you think Katrina should be ostracized for it, don't try to fuckin' roleplay with me.

Real simple isn't it?

You know what, nevermind.

The greatest Caldari sin is to flaunt your differences.     You can be different, you just have to bring attention to how you are the same as the others and avoid making a point of your differences from the aggregate.  Polite Caldari (and to not be polite is to different) will deliberately not notice. 

At least as long as you aren't forcing them to notice, like Kaikka Peunato did.  His squad-mates and superiors probably all knew he was gay long before he made his revelation.   Having grown up in Caldari culture he'd know what would happen once he came out publicly - and thus mostly like had plans to defect to the Guristas long before hand.   

[Lithium Flower]

It was said not about Caldari, but about the State.
For example, Gurista are Caldari too and are not limited by State laws, morals and traditions. One don't even have to be Gurista. Many Caldari just run from the State because they can't cope with strict State customs with exhausting competitions, and can establish their own societies or work for Nulsec Empires (or who would run all these stations, outposts, planetary colonies, capsuleer ships), where almost anything is possible.

[Jace]

Just in case people were responding to me: nowhere did I say nor have I ever said that you can't RP a gay State citizen. It is perfectly doable depending on the context and how it is done. I am merely happy that CCP started solidifying certain aspects of State PF - in my opinion, consistently solidifying them.

[Katrina Oniseki]

My bad, guys. I've been working pretty much constant shifts and this morning I was pretty ill because I didn't get much sleep the night before.

[purple]

My bad, guys. I've been working pretty much constant shifts and this morning I was pretty ill because I didn't get much sleep the night before.

Yea...I gave you the peoples eyebrow IRL for that one.



I'm out of the loop but AFAIK there are two main bubbles of Caldari RPers and both have homosexual characters at the center.   (Hint one of them is Kat)   I doubt she's being ostracized.

[Jikahr]

I do recall reading an IRL article about the Gay pride parade in Toronto. The article was called 'the end of Gay', or something. The author was saying that being gay was more fun when it was frowned upon, a sort of secret society. It was forbidden fruit, like underaged drinking. Once gay became more acceptable, more mainstream, more NORMAL, it somehow became a lot less fun.

I can certainly see an aspect of this in EVE. In a game where we all undock in spaceships looking for reasons to kill one another, why should we get our feelings hurt if our war targets turn out to be homophobic?

Institutional homosexuality is pretty common in military societies such as the Army and Navy. Is it tolerated in the Navy despite the fact that gay marriages aren't recognized in Caldari society as a whole? The Greek Spartans for example, believed that homosexual soldiers would fight harder to protect the man next to him.

I would think that if ships had crews, homosexual pod pilots would be more 'logical' than heterosexual ones, since combat vessels don't make great nurseries. If everyone is sterile and children are born in test tubes, then why the prohibition on gay marriage?

[Lithium Flower]

I think instead of discussing whether it is good or bad, who are doing right or wrong, how to follow or bypass it, or just going " ", it would bring much more profit (obligatory Caldari behavior in Caldari thread  ), if we better discuss what it will bring, and how to actually use it, how to generate content with it.

Look at this situation in the State more carefully, it is whole military society with strict morals, and such homophobic approach has roots in their lack of sexuality. Or, simply speaking, they are so busy, so they don't have time to be erotic. When I think about it, I imagine USSR society with its joke formula (from last days of USSR), that "There is no sex in USSR". Well, it doesn't mean all people are born in tubes, but rather that no one talks about sex, there is completely nothing about sex in media, TV, advertisements, etc. What peoples do in their bedrooms doesn't leave door of said bedrooms. And as consequence, they don't know how to be erotic. Of course there are whores, public houses, some strip bars maybe in prohibited areas. But on everyday sense people can't be erotic.

And here comes another interesting consequence: when people actually try to be erotic without knowing about it, it becomes simply repulsive. (As an example, I remember again late USSR, when they started to allow erotic and even were going about it in local TV channel, even in prime time, even when children were allowed to watch. And it was really ugly, dirty and repulsive.)

Why people would do it? That's quite simple. First, being a rebel. And second, if they saw really arousing gallente-produced (err... foreign, in case of USSR) erotic. But on other hand, those, who weren't so rebel, when were looking at domestic erotic, were disgusted even more, and were bringing it as examples, why such behavior should not be allowed.

And there is one interesting point to RP about: how do peoples of completely different cultures and morals interact, on one hand, there will be interest and curiosity from both sides, and on other hand, misunderstanding and repulsion: "-You are what, sexually repressed?!" - "You are what, filthy, dirty and disgusting?"

But it is just the start. CCP gave us rather strong, and I would say, incredibly strong boiling point for conflict: it is illegality of homosexual relations. For Caldari, it should be rather normal, and nothing is wrong: everything, that is not a "vanilla sex" is probably a disgusting perversion. For Gallente?... especially gallente activists for freedom and LGBT communities, it is like a red flag in bullfighting. Now take into account that it is even prohibited by law and shunned by communities, it should make Gallente people very mad at Caldari, creating incredibly strong conflict topics.