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[Mizhara]

Have a little leniency and open your horizons a bit more than "nuh it can't happen because reereereeasons."

Okay, how about having a little bit of leniency, opening your horizons a bit more than "THIS HAPPENS CUZ WE SAY SO!" and maybe go "Oh, right. Well, we can do the exact same things in space without breaking every piece of lore in existence."? It's not like it's difficult to work with people. You're too focused on the fact that there's criticism and not enough on the fact that it's constructive. When I tell you why something likely doesn't work like this, it's because there's ways things can be done. It'd require nothing but the most minor of adjustments to provide the exact same in-space options without dumping freighterloads of troops on hostile planets.

I'm also rather curious who you're pegging as 'the heart of the community' or who is trying to 'banish' you or anyone else. So far, you're the one who's unilaterally declaring 'Inner Circles' and throwing rather offensive autism insults at people providing criticism.

I mean, you understand why people are leery, right? Imagine opening this can of worms. If we set the precedent that we can do this, it's one hell of a slippery slope. I know people who solo can stuff double digits worth of freighters full of troops and so on, throwing them at any planet in New Eden. Scary precedent to set.

[Teinyhr]

Yes, well, despite her personal feelings about U'K Tein will not shoot them if they're doing the right thing on K3. Assuming the (Grr)Amarr show up with a logi wing or something, that might be something to shoot at.

[Ferra Orta]

I get it Miz, I do. Despite how this is all being handled on the forums, we ARE taking criticism constructively, I'm just on a personal vendetta against elitism which honestly is a can of worms I regret opening already. Like I said, I'm not pointing the finger at people, more just the attitudes in general that tend to quickly group up and lead to everyone having their "this is dumb" say and input. The community can be quite harsh at times and often seems as if it's merely trying to shoot down the whole thing rather than provide constructive criticism.

Ultimately we are only making an attempt and earlier when I said a victory would entail us saving a number of slaves(not all/majority) was intended only as example, not as a solid fact on what the end result would be from op success. We fully expected a bit of blow back - though not quite to the scale that's developed. We just want to break away from server-wide RP events feeling so locked to ballroom dances or debates and shitfuckery in the IGS/TS channels. The only reason we're announcing the plans is in hopes of rousing PIE/SFRIM and some others in Amarr Militias to bring a little fight our way, otherwise the chances in gaining that would have been extremely grim. It's content for everyone we're trying to provide under a very good narrative and reason to have sparked this action taken by the Matari militia and extremists. Sure Amarr Navy would ruin us with a sneeze, but the will and hearts of those involved is willing to risk it to save these slaves - whether that makes us martyrs or suicidal maniacs, we are taking action into our own hands. Those involved in the strike are all capsuleers anyway, who cares if we're blown up and fail, we tried. The skeleton crews of the capsuleer ships are all militia and signed up for this crazy shit anyway.

[Mizhara]

Hey, I recognize, salute and promote all these things. More in-game shit, hurrah. It's exactly what's needed.

Just sayin', you can do all of these things without borking the setting. Bringing the ships, the freighter, etc etc is all fantastic stuff. The only real point of contention is dropping an unreasonable army planetside. It's unnecessary for the content, and it's unreasonable in terms of what it tries to set a precedent for. Even just attempting it is kind of godmodey, since that establishes that we even have the damn hardware for it and that we can launch that from freighters, somehow.

Just having that power is something that'd set characters like Miz up as unfathomable Gods, raining death, destruction and millions of troops down upon Marys.

All I'm saying is, maybe shift things slightly, IC. Shift it from 'dropping troops planetside' to maybe establishing a space-side supply of forces, armaments and supplies for the rebelling slaves and baseliner organizations working with them. This'd justify everything you do in space, ensuring all the content is in place, and yet leaving all the 'troop dropping' etc etc to CCP and IC it'd make perfect sense just having it all ready for those moments of opportunity as the baseliners/rebels/etc briefly shut down shield generators or knock out anti-air briefly enough that small landing craft can bring down a small number of forces/supplies/armaments.

You'd get all the in-space stuff. You'd get to affect the conflict to a greater degree than capsuleers ever have before these events. You'd do all of the things you say you want, without opening any cans of worms there, you know?

As for your personal vendetta against elitism, I'm not entirely sure what you're even referring to in this case. Is 'elitism' adhering to the actual lore? I'm genuinely an elitist jerk (actual member back in the day) and when it comes to RP I'm pretty strict indeed, but this isn't exactly anyone being unreasonable.

[Teinyhr]

since that establishes that we even have the damn hardware for it and that we can launch that from freighters, somehow.

Tangentially related to all of this, when the "Wrath of Garkeh" Ark appeared, it used the Planetary Customs Office (to my knowledge) to move units. Of course we couldn't establish which way, both pulling out and reinforcing seem plausible, but then again if they were pulling out, I'm sure there'd been news about it already, 2 days in.

[Mizhara]

Yup, it makes some kinds of sense that we can sometimes utilize the Custom's Office logistics path for relatively minor things. Smuggling arms, small units of forces, etc. However, it would in all likelihood be pretty minor in terms of what it can deploy down there. Extraction I'm sure is far more easily done, but the various nations would have insisted on significant security measures when it comes to deployment, I bet.

[Ferra Orta]

To answer the latter part of that post first; I'm just being sour and bitter to put it into a TL;DR, though I still stand that a bit less aggressively defensive stance on giving constructive criticism is something a lot of folks on the forums and community should try sometime. Moving on!

"All I'm saying is, maybe shift things slightly, IC. Shift it from 'dropping troops planetside' to maybe establishing a space-side supply of forces, armaments and supplies for the rebelling slaves and baseliner organizations working with them. This'd justify everything you do in space, ensuring all the content is in place, and yet leaving all the 'troop dropping' etc etc to CCP and IC it'd make perfect sense just having it all ready for those moments of opportunity as the baseliners/rebels/etc briefly shut down shield generators or knock out anti-air briefly enough that small landing craft can bring down a small number of forces/supplies/armaments."

This is pretty much exactly how we're doing it and have always planned on it happening. All the marines, rebels and gear on the freighter is just to attempt this, there is no "it is happening because we have it in our cargo" to this. That's in CCP's hands 100% regardless of the outcome of the space battle(if we get one.) From all the responses the initial forum post got it's clear a lot of people didn't read it properly or simply get that this is all just one big attempt, there's no god modding involved at all in this. What ever the outcome is, is what it is, the only thing we're forcing is a fleet and freighter into orbit to try and achieve the goal of saving slaves. Everyone, the community and CCP are free to do with this as they wish, that's half the point in it all.

It was always aimmed to play out like that since it was planned, even prior to announcing it on the forums. We've just argued it so hard because a lot of folks are getting down our throats about something we already know and are trying to adhere to. Lol.

Regardless of this mess, I'm excited for it and looking forward to seeing if CCP picks it up on their radar to report on it - what ever happens.

[Mitara Newelle]

I think this freighter thing is pretty cool, kudos for putting the ISK up to see if it gets shot down.  It sounds like you are leaving the results(it it lives) up to CCP which is good.  Just be prepared with a lot of very vague statements in case CCP doesn't do anything with the hook at all, which is entirely possible(though I would hope not, they seem to be having fun with this arc so...).  I'm kind of jealous of all you that might be able to see this stuff unfold more firsthand.  I'm so damn swamped at work I'll probably miss anything juicy.

[kalaratiri]

I'll probably miss anything juicy.

So will everyone else



  pls

[Louella Dougans]

I'll probably miss anything juicy.

So will everyone else



  pls

try,

removing your account from the launcher, then adding it again.

[kalaratiri]

That is what I did to receive that error.

The previous error was


Edit:
Anyway, this is off topic. But thanks CCP.

[Silas Vitalia]

I'm not subbed for a long time, so I dont have a dog in this fight, and I'm only reading this thread....but:

Hostile capsuleers aren't publicly advertising and then successfuly landing freighters full of troops in enemy high sec, at least unless there's been a drastic retconning or re-work of the IP?

I know we are lore nerds and all but this isn't like, 10th level lore nerd stuff. 

There are nearly unlimited ways to pew pew in space with your RP friends and enemies and bring ships and content to all the land without this approach, I'm not sure why this path was chosen? You can literally do the same event in space and say you are hauling relief supplies or make anything up you like and have the same potential game interaction?

A lighter touch on this sort of thing always goes down better with others and is more palatable to the fiction and setting. It gets cringe real fast with this kind of thing, believe it.

Any NPC faction in the game would shit all over this, at least how they have been written and explained to us over the last 15 years? Am I missing something? RKN specifically managed to hold off several Imperial Navy invasions before and during the 'cold war', and their ground troops are arguably among the best in the cluster, way scarier than their Navy at least. 

Maybe work out something similar and interact with a deployed capsuleers structure in orbit?

I just don't see how it passes the smell test.

I mean you all do your thing have fun, it doesn't always have to make sense I guess, but part of communal narrative lasting is keeping it all on the same page before escalation into the imagination stratosphere

[Silas Vitalia]

That's a separate criticism that has nothing to do with the effort and isk spent, which are all good things, and it's great you are coming up with ways to get everyone out and shooting.

[Aldrith Shutaq]

I'd also like to add my voice of general support for this. Trying to make things move is a good thing, creating content in space is a great thing (the end goal of any dev doing this) and creating good stories and legends that live on is part of what will keep EVE RP and other parts of the game going. Please do not take the criticism OOC too harshly, and the criticism IC coming from your own side... it's because IC they are afraid of a loss of lives and material for little real gain. If a big, blustery Amarr group were attempting something under similar circumstances, we'd be up in arms as well. But it seems U'K is intent on making a statement, which this definitely will.

I also do agree that some more finesse when it comes to lore plausibility could have been done, but only if you are intending to increase your chances of "winning" and "success" within the IC and game context. Clearly, however, you are prepared to lose, which is an excellent attitude to take to this. In fact, honestly, every part of this plan reeks of U'K's signature style: big, loud, pissed off but not especially bright. Good on you, and there is no shame in trying or in keeping with the flavor of your characters and group. Do something or die trying is very much a valid Minmatar attitude to have.

We may or may not have something (or even a reason to) resist the attempt since opinions are fractured on the Amarr and Caldari side and it's a bit short notice, but we'll see what happens. May our fites be gud and our 'splosions pretty.

[Isha Vuld]

Personally, I always found this entire thing a bit iffy, and find the concept of a fleet assault to be the least iffy part of it.

It always struck me as weird how this escalated. Smuggling the occasional team of mercenaries down to the planet and the occasional frigate or industrial's worth of survivors out through various means felt realistic. Hostile penetrations of air space always felt a bit like walking on the edge of what was acceptable, at least with haulers. That is why I am very happy that some within the Amarr where willing to play inside agent and thus provide a plausible way to save people.

But things soon escalated beyond that and several capsuleers started landing armies by the hundreds or even thousands and even set up staging areas in space, and that to me felt very weird and kind of unrealistic, since when can we invade a planet like that? If we had a fleet in orbit keeping the Khanid at bay, okay, but appearantly Kahah's airspace was just constantly being breached by entire army transports, or so it seemed with all the people claiming to land troops and bioweapons and what have you.

But people seemed happy enough to go with it, so I was happy enough to not make much of a stir, but now that a fleet's involved it's suddenly problematic?

I find the fleet to be the least questionable part, in part because the devs have shown a willingness to deploy NPC's (friggin' Concord!) to handle troublemakers in orbit, so I figured at worst maybe Chakaid will show up and summon a few dozen fleets if this was really deemed to be unrealistic and we'l be pasted the moment we enter system. And if not them, players also have a very big option to field their own fleet and make the operation a failure, there is a lot more forewarning involved here then with most "real" ops, so it seems like there are plenty of tools.

But beyond that, capsuleers seem capable of fielding pretty impressive fleets, so I find a breaching of the blockade with brute force plausible. at least for a short while.

The short while is important. No, we can't beat the Khanid navy, but we can get in, drive them off, and do our thing and get out before reinforcements arrive, hopefully. And that's only if absolutely everything goes according to plan, and is the absolute maximum that can be achieved here.