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[Aldrith Shutaq]

Like I said, it seems to me U'K aren't concerned with pulling off a flawless victory with this, but IC to just do something that assuages their need to stick it to the man. Which is fine, it's not smart or strategic, but it's a defiant Minmatar stand, which is in keeping with what they are.

They're trying something. Work with it.

[Mizhara]

Wait what? No one's complained about a fleet. People are taking issue with deploying freighterloads of armies planetside. Please don't strawman this shit.

[Samira Kernher]

But things soon escalated beyond that and several capsuleers started landing armies by the hundreds or even thousands and even set up staging areas in space, and that to me felt very weird and kind of unrealistic, since when can we invade a planet like that? If we had a fleet in orbit keeping the Khanid at bay, okay, but appearantly Kahah's airspace was just constantly being breached by entire army transports, or so it seemed with all the people claiming to land troops and bioweapons and what have you.

Agreed, though something to keep in mind is that a few hundred people spread across several several populated planets each comprised of millions-billions of people winds up being quite a small number. Though most people are focused on Kahah III, the uprisings are spread out across the system (including the Khanid space station). I could see how it might feel a bit on the high side, though (but something to keep in mind is that there's a difference between how many you try to land, and how many get through. Same thing will of course be the case with the freighter army. Only CCP can say how many of the attempted number actually gets through).

Bioweapons are a bit iffy. They can have a big effect, but they're realistically something very easy to smuggle in, possibly even easier than smuggling in personal firearms. Even IRL, bioweapons are one of the easiest means of conducting terrorism. Nukes are a different story, though even there IRL there's growing fears of nukes being miniaturized enough to fit in a briefcase. Obviously though, the ability for such things to have an effect, or just how big of an effect that might be, would be entirely up to CCP. No one should be RPing 'lol I just set off a 30 kiloton bomb in this planet's capital city!' or 'I unleashed a deadly plague across the planet!'.

Staging areas in space are a non-issue to me. CONCORD capsuleer policies basically legally allow you to move wherever you please and set up whatever you please in space. However, there's no way those facilities are actually launching shuttle craft back and forth from the surface. I don't think anyone has claimed that, but that should definitely be a no-no. At best they can function as communication hubs. Depots are nice though, for the same reason the UK/VA thing is nice -- it's something in space, that people can hunt down and shoot.

But people seemed happy enough to go with it, so I was happy enough to not make much of a stir, but now that a fleet's involved it's suddenly problematic?

It's more the '100,000 troops' than the fleet. The fleet is the awesome part of all this, and something I commend of you all. But with that number of footsoldiers, it's a moment where you can no longer feasibly hide what you're doing by sneaking aboard normal baseliner transport activity or the occasional blockade runner (as in function, not ship class). That's where you have to start RPing launching fleets of assault craft.

I find the fleet to be the least questionable part, in part because the devs have shown a willingness to deploy NPC's (friggin' Concord!) to handle troublemakers in orbit, so I figured at worst maybe Chakaid will show up and summon a few dozen fleets if this was really deemed to be unrealistic and we'l be pasted the moment we enter system. And if not them, players also have a very big option to field their own fleet and make the operation a failure, there is a lot more forewarning involved here then with most "real" ops, so it seems like there are plenty of tools.

It should be noted CCP has yet to demonstrate any ability to dynamically spawn NPC fleets on people. In the past, for them to put together a fleet, they needed to get everyone in the office to log on individually, which made counters to player activity difficult (though there has been exceptions, like the original sansha incursions and the drifter attack on Jamyl. I assume those were pre-arranged). Actually, one of the reasons why they stopped live events a few years back was because they didn't feel they had enough dev tools to do it justice.

The CONCORD thing was most likely a mistake. They generally set players to suspect, not criminal. Suspect allows for player agency, while CONCORDing doesn't. I don't see them CONCORDing the freighter. What they might do, though, is set everyone in the area suspect, to open it up to people not in FW/not under war decs.

Ultimately it'll be up to players to stop the space side of things.

As for what happens on the ground/air if the space battle is won? That'll be up to news reports.

[Isha Vuld]

Which is why the fleet is awesome, there is no need to hide what you're doing if you can clear the blockading fleet off the system. Air superiority is a wonderful thing, and it would be quite easy to deploy 100 thousand troops then.

Hey, nobody said there'd be no collateral damage.

The point is more, I found it hard to believe that various capsuleers would be able to "hide" what ultimately amounts to armies of mercenaries and footsoldiers over the course of several weeks, particularly when they openly brag about doing so.

The fact that that was okay and this is not is what I find strange, particularly when there is actually a good reason for the landing, for once (I.e, if the op works, there is nothing to stop the landing).

[Ferra Orta]

After 17-18 years or so of RP, I've definitely found that there is no community as anal as the EvE online RP community. Not that it's a bad thing, I just know I won't be helping organize or plan anything like this again. All the folks who agree keep messaging me and other supporters yet are scared to come forth publicly in fear of "the elite" bashing them and making them feel like inferior idiots(y'all good at that.) Those who helped and supported; thank you, very much, truly.

I've been planning a short break from EvE and was hoping to go out on a fun note, but honestly I just want this fleet over with now. I was looking forward to all the RP surrounding it, but I think I'll pass. Just let me blap Amarr and win EvE already.

o7

[Aldrith Shutaq]

Well, also don't be like that. There will always be naysayers to anything, and you do have plenty of supporters for this. Take the criticism in stride, seek the constructive bits while ignoring the destructive ones, carry on with life and have fun. There's a fair few publicly supporting this OOC. IC is trickier because that's based on how the characters react to the world dynamic, not what's fun, so don't take it too hard there. It's a suicide mission, and people adverse to suicide missions will speak out against it. Just carry on if it's what your people would do, and enjoy the results. Conflict is good.

[Ferra Orta]

To add one point: If the Khanid kingdom is so determined not to let these attempts get by them, then many of the successes reported on my CCP themselves would also not have worked. People have been sneaking out slaves, and LITERALLY setting up infrastructure which has been reported on by CCP proving their willingness for these situations to work and create good arc-continuation of the story at hand.

What we're trying to do with the freighter isn't completely unbelievable, not if you lack a little imagination. It's clearly an extremely risky and likely suicide mission; but what good fucking story came from anything else in this situation? CCP have the imagination required to make this thing work, a lot of you should too. Bloody impossible sometimes, I swear.

[Ferra Orta]

Well, also don't be like that. There will always be naysayers to anything, and you do have plenty of supporters for this. Take the criticism in stride, seek the constructive bits while ignoring the destructive ones, carry on with life and have fun. There's a fair few publicly supporting this OOC. IC is trickier because that's based on how the characters react to the world dynamic, not what's fun, so don't take it too hard there. It's a suicide mission, and people adverse to suicide missions will speak out against it. Just carry on if it's what your people would do, and enjoy the results. Conflict is good.

Thanks, sincerely. I'm just tired of it being the same people who jump to nit pick and shit on things like this, it's like they literally watch the forums 24/7 for someone to post something that's "wrong." #InB4TheRage

Regarding a break, I was planning it anyway.

[Silas Vitalia]

Agree with this definitely IC being a very U'K solution to things, so good on that front.

The boundaries of plausable capsuleers involvement with baseliner things and interactions/conflicts with NPC factions have always sort of pushed the limits of the IP, right?

It's just sort of where do we pick the lines for what seems to have been boundaries with the fiction previously.  We get into funny areas that don't make sense regarding CONCORD and the Yulai Accords and the Nation States all the time.  IE Kingdom people working the Stargate into Kahah probably wouldn't let an advertised UK invasion fleet into the system, right? So where does CONCORD "hands off capsuleers" jurisdiction end? After you get in the system? After they are tracked into low orbit? The minute they start trying to land ships? When do the imposed Concord restrictions on RKN blasting them out of the sky end?

Again this is a particular forum for turbo nerds to nerd out about all of this dumb lore stuff, one shouldn't expect this not to be dissected a bit on here of all places.

A bunch of geeks on here disagreeing shouldn't dissuade you from doing whatever you want to do in game at any time for any reason, but they also aren't going to not vocally debate some lore if it's outside of the norm.

[Samira Kernher]

Which is why the fleet is awesome, there is no need to hide what you're doing if you can clear the blockading fleet off the system. Air superiority is a wonderful thing, and it would be quite easy to deploy 100 thousand troops then.

Hey, nobody said there'd be no collateral damage.

The point is more, I found it hard to believe that various capsuleers would be able to "hide" what ultimately amounts to armies of mercenaries and footsoldiers over the course of several weeks, particularly when they openly brag about doing so.

The fact that that was okay and this is not is what I find strange, particularly when there is actually a good reason for the landing, for once (I.e, if the op works, there is nothing to stop the landing).

I don't want to target Teinyhr here but I will agree that 1000 maybe does feel a bit high. But she herself seemed to recognize that though (pulling back from plans of 5000). Just, in that case, I feel I can judge it as mostly ignorable: The intent of keeping things low was there, if maybe the actual numbers could be considered iffy. It's a case where I don't feel the need to 'be the bad guy' and call it out, and I can reason in my headcanon that a good 90% of those people simply don't make it.

Honestly, you claiming to make off with 3000 slaves bugged me more, as the transport you were using can't even fit 3000 slaves (as Slave items are 5m3 each, heh). Or the numbers of rescues Thaila and MHE Industries were wanting to claim (in the range of tens or hundreds of thousands before I convinced them to ease up on it a bit). But again, in both these cases as with Teinyhr, I felt these numbers are still ultimately small enough that calling them out would be petty. (well, okay, I did call out Thaila's original numbers, but after she scaled them down to something more reasonable I didn't mind anymore). I can respect the idea of what is being attempted, acknowledge the goal, while handwaving the exact numbers if they don't fit what I personally view as within reasonable limits.

An army of a 100k troops, though, extends a bit beyond that level, to me.

[Isha Vuld]

All the folks who agree keep messaging me and other supporters yet are scared to come forth publicly in fear of "the elite" bashing them and making them feel like inferior idiots(y'all good at that.)

Can confirm I have been receiving a shocking number of these messages as well. I don't personally feel troubled though, people can like or dislike whatever they want, in the end I don't feel anybody's participation is required.
I feel like some of these fears are in reference to the attitudes that some characters exhibit IC. IC/OOC seperation is not as much of a thing on EvE as it is on other MMO's, and not everyone seems to handle the routine derision from some of the ol' bittervets on the forums very well. Nobody's at fault with that one, if you ask me, and I think that's an entirely different topic that probably warrants it's own thread, so I won't go into that here.

With regards to numbers freed, Thaila's at least does number in the tens of thousands, which was not a stretch as I managed to acquire about ten thousand slaves (actual in game items in cargo holds) in the span of an afternoon from Kahah.

How this went unopposed is something we can ask the defenders, but it's certainly plausible. And on that note, large cargo vessels can hold a shocking amount of both slaves and troops.

If there is nothing to stop them landing, yes they are going to land. Is it futile? Probably not, and I don't know about Aldrith's assumption that it will be a guaranteed fail.

I mean naturally nobody is going to conquer all of Kahah III. That's just silly. It is certainly possible to go out with quite a hurrah, however, depending on what exactly happens.

And if people don't like that, well. I don't know. Don't participate? I mean everything in RP is optional, in the end. Nobody should force anybody to acknowledge anything. We're all here just to have fun in the end, and let no one ever forget about that end goal.

The endless debates on what is "realistic" is a very familiar one to me, and I'm afraid we probably won't ever reach a consensus on that. Communities rarely do, that's just how they work. One person says "you can't", another says "you can", and barring developer intervention, the truth will forever remain elusive.

I personally for example find it unrealistic to deploy thousands of troops in multiple runs on a defended planet, but find it very realistic to drop a hundred thousand if you've managed to clear the defense from orbit. Others might disagree.

This is fine, provided everybody is, as Aldrith has said, civil and constructive about it. And so far, it has mostly stayed civil and constructive.

[Silas Vitalia]

I think cries of "victimization" at the hand of "bittervets" belies a teeny bit of a brittle spirit. There's a huffiness and puffiness there about taking your ball and going home at the slightest glancing of opposition to something.  Good god man, it's internet spaceships and imaginary pew pew let's everyone take a breath.

"I like 3/4 of this but have some issues with 1/4 of this lore wise"

"Do you bite your thumb at us, SIR!"

 

This wouldn't be the first or the 500th time some RPers did something that other people scratched their heads at or argued about the feasibility of behind the scenes.  The difference here might be that CCP usually didn't interact with us in any official capacity for this sort of thing so the lore 'collateral damage' was minimal for future arguments since there were no 'judges rulings' on any of it. 

This entire forum is generally set up to talk about this kind of thing, usually (hopefully) with cooler heads about it

[Silas Vitalia]

Maybe we could change tack here though back to the 'arc' what is the current plotting on this?

Some Blooders released the aggro gas on multiple planets (not just Kingdom planets, right?).  Have they talked much about culprits or larger aims with this stuff? In all of the Matari / Khanid pew pew discussions are the Blooders just giggling and watching or was there a plan to do anything during this?

[Isha Vuld]

I think cries of "victimization" at the hand of "bittervets" belies a teeny bit of a brittle spirit.

Brittle spirit, or they just can't be buggered with being scoffed at most of the hours that they put into roleplay and go somewhere else. Some people think this is a problem, some think the system is working just fine. No opinion on that one here.

RE: The wider plot. I think the blooders are just giggling?

There havnt really been any hooks for us to follow up on, I believe. I heard murmurs of trying to expose Chakaid as a blooder here or there,but as far as I know, there are no threads to follow except the massacre of Kahah.

Maybe this will come, maybe not. I suspect not because the whole thing seems meant to tie in to the halloween event, which is seasonal.

[Mizhara]

Maybe we could change tack here though back to the 'arc' what is the current plotting on this?

Some Blooders released the aggro gas on multiple planets (not just Kingdom planets, right?).  Have they talked much about culprits or larger aims with this stuff? In all of the Matari / Khanid pew pew discussions are the Blooders just giggling and watching or was there a plan to do anything during this?

Blooders doesn't seem to be doing shit. It seems primarily to be a very hamfisted push by Khanid (in cahoots with blooders obviously) towards heightening tensions and creating military conflicts. The overall goal seems to be instability and chaos, allowing for power grabs and so on.

That's my take on it anyway.