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[Jace]

@Jace, you are quite right. I'm using the word wrong, now that I'm looking at it again but in my defense I think it's still a better use of the word than how it was used during the debacle.

While I try to avoid using the term most of the time, I think it is a pretty accurate insult for many offended gamers. Their attitudes absolutely do make it seem as if they feel they have a 'right' to a product designed, implemented, and disseminated in whatever way they wish. To me that is more worrying than usage of the term to label those folks. There seems to be a growing attitude that being a consumer means you have some sort of right to dictate how a product is created which is not the case whatsoever. You have the right to walk up with your cash and purchase it. Does feedback influence development? Absolutely. Continue to give feedback in the hopes that you can change things, but that is different than demanding something or expecting to have your whims catered to. Video games are not restaurants where you order a steak medium rare. You order what the developers create.

[Karmilla Strife]

I am extremely amused that backstage is being used to discuss what is essentially drama within a clique.

[Jace]

I am extremely amused that backstage is being used to discuss what is essentially drama within a clique.

As opposed to what, debating the meaning of justice?

And the entitlement thing is relevant to every MMO fanbase ever.

[Mizhara]

I'm not sure I agree with you, Jace. I think they certainly are entitled to say "This is what I want, you should do this or that and here's why:" or "This is what I expected when I purchased the game, you delivered something entirely different. What are you going to do about this?". Of course, there's nothing that says they should or even could get these things, but they are certainly within their rights to make the requests. Especially if they're paying consumers. The devs, in this case Bioware, are obviously free to ignore them entirely but I think it's worrying that consumers voicing their opinions is frowned upon.

[Jace]

Of course, there's nothing that says they should or even could get these things

This is why certain gamers are criticized with the word. They absolutely believe they should get the things they complain about.

[Mizhara]

I certainly understand that, but I still say that's a very poor use of the word and it dismisses the quite legitimate rights those consumers have in the process.

[Jace]

I certainly understand that, but I still say that's a very poor use of the word and it dismisses the quite legitimate rights those consumers have in the process.

I would say the example I just gave is a very accurate use of the word but the extension of the usage to everyone who complains about a product is indeed a poor use of the word. It should be reserved for those that have the attitude we just spoke about, not all who complain.

And why do you insist on the phrase 'rights of the consumer?' A consumer has the right to an opinion, express that opinion, and purchase a product. That is it. I think we largely agree on the points at hand but just have different approach to handling the topic.

[Vizage]

The customers complaining that ME3's ending sucked, who chose not to preordered DA3  because of it, and gave the game negative reviews. All acted well within their freedoms as consumers.

The as those who demanded Brownie rewrite the ending of their own intellectual property because the consumer didn't like it, was acting  on a false (and frankly douchebag)  level of entitlement.

Edit: By Talos I think my autocorrect is trolling the hell out of me today.

[Mizhara]

Agreed, but I don't think there were many who actually demanded that. As far as I could see, anyway. What I saw a lot of was raising the possibility of an ending DLC/expansion/patch or whatever that fixed what was for all intents and purposes exactly what Bioware claimed would not happen. The hype mentioned a double figure number of possible endings depending on the choices made up to that point and RGB barely counted as three endings all determined in one moment, effectively making all choices beforehand entirely irrelevant and moot. The complaints and critique (with solutions/fixes suggested) had quite a bit of merit, and my lament is largely that this majority was dismissed as "entitled" for it.

[Jace]

Agreed, but I don't think there were many who actually demanded that. As far as I could see, anyway. What I saw a lot of was raising the possibility of an ending DLC/expansion/patch or whatever that fixed what was for all intents and purposes exactly what Bioware claimed would not happen. The hype mentioned a double figure number of possible endings depending on the choices made up to that point and RGB barely counted as three endings all determined in one moment, effectively making all choices beforehand entirely irrelevant and moot. The complaints and critique (with solutions/fixes suggested) had quite a bit of merit, and my lament is largely that this majority was dismissed as "entitled" for it.

As far as I was aware, and this is usually the case in other instances like this, people are dismissed as entitled not because they had 'critique' or because they 'suggested' solutions but because they demand compensation for somehow being wronged by not being given what is rightfully theirs. This can absolutely be dismissed as entitlement and ignored.

But suggestions, critique, and the like? More power to them.

[Vizage]

Jane hits it on the button I think.

[Lyn Farel]

I think there's a great bit more to it than that, Jace. Both the devs and the consumers are entitled to a great many things, among them the ability to complain if they consider the product to fall short of what was advertised or expected. Of course, the developers are entitled to entirely ignore that if they so choose, but then the consumers are entitled to strike that company off the list of potential future purchases, etc etc. Entitled is a word I really see used very poorly in these issues as almost without fail it's used as an insult against those who complain about the product they purchased. Yes, we are in fact entitled to a whole lot of things. This should not come as a surprise.

@Kala, I think your first thing disappeared for some reason. As for the RPS article, I try to avoid giving them clicks these days.

There was that youtube video by TotalBiscuit about pre orders and how that was retarded to pre order anything (after the Alien Colonial Marine fiasco especially). Was making a point about letting journalists, reviewers, or even other gamers to make up their mind, especially with their press early access, and reading their reviews and making up your own mind about it before buying.

If it's clearly not answering to the hype, expectations, advertisement and promises, then don't buy it. Getting hysterical because you bought it like a little groupie without even getting informed before hand is a bit mindboggling to me. It's a bit like buying right away the next smartphone of your favorite brand or the brand new graphic card of your favorite line of products without ever getting informed about it. Yes of course, sometimes you just have bad luck, but that's unusual.

However I would understand it a little better if they were actually pledgers in a kickstarted game where they were the ones actually investing in the product, not just buying it.

Well I won't defend Bioware for the wtf they did at the end of ME3, of course, but that's another issue. Anyway, it was maybe considered like intellectual masturbation by many as well as a big troll with the 3 colours endings, but considering the cheesy quality of all the ends of the first one and the second one... What were people expecting ?

Also, what was pointed out was not complaining about a product, it was getting totally hysterical over it. And considering how all the internet suddenly went completely hyper emotional over it... Yeah. I think the cynical remarks about it were rather legitimate.

Anyway, Jace told it better than me :

@Jace, you are quite right. I'm using the word wrong, now that I'm looking at it again but in my defense I think it's still a better use of the word than how it was used during the debacle.

While I try to avoid using the term most of the time, I think it is a pretty accurate insult for many offended gamers. Their attitudes absolutely do make it seem as if they feel they have a 'right' to a product designed, implemented, and disseminated in whatever way they wish. To me that is more worrying than usage of the term to label those folks. There seems to be a growing attitude that being a consumer means you have some sort of right to dictate how a product is created which is not the case whatsoever. You have the right to walk up with your cash and purchase it. Does feedback influence development? Absolutely. Continue to give feedback in the hopes that you can change things, but that is different than demanding something or expecting to have your whims catered to. Video games are not restaurants where you order a steak medium rare. You order what the developers create.

____________________________________

I enjoyed ME2 & 3 very much. I have yet to finish ME1.

Yes I did too. Thanks to the universe and the screenplay, because they have a budget.

But the story and all the clichés ? meh. Good entertainment value though, at the very least. 

I think it's pretty hard to call anything you just listed off as entitlements. Entitlements to me imply they have been somehow earned or purchased.

What you seem to be referring to are simple freedoms. Consumer and Producer freedoms that are universal across our economy.

I'm only highlighting this because there is inherent  baggage that comes with words like entitlement that I don't think actually apply to fans who were upset by ME3's ending. (I was not one of them, I loved ME3's ending but I'm also one of those whack O's who liked Bioshock Infinite, and understood Inception the first time I watched it.  So yeah.)

I loved Bioshock Infinite. Except the epilogue. 

[Lyn Farel]

[Shiori]

[Mizhara]

So will actual evidence of collusion between different games journalists on what they should and shouldn't cover be enough?

It is possible to use different words than corruption here, but the severe implications of a unified front on what is and isn't covered across gaming media are frankly too severe to ignore. Can you imagine if all the news agencies had e-mail exchanges on what stories they should or shouldn't run? Which stories should be ignored and which should be plastered across all front pages?

Urging each other to use their platforms to push an agenda is enough for me to dismiss the entire gaming press as fucking useless at this point. The trust is exactly nil.