Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Arista Shahni]

So, not much further along at all?

Anyway, I know "not all guy gamers are bad hurrrrr"

I don't need any of you guys to sign a petition for that.

Don't talk.  Don't sign shit.  Don't wave signs and protest.  That shit never achieves anything.

Just keep your eyes opn to what it is you do versus what it is you were taught to do.

[Charles Cambridge Schmidt]

So, not much further along at all?

Anyway, I know "not all guy gamers are bad hurrrrr"

I don't need any of you guys to sign a petition for that.

Don't talk.  Don't sign shit.  Don't wave signs and protest.  That shit never achieves anything.

Just keep your eyes opn to what it is you do versus what it is you were taught to do.

qft

the petition is nice and all but it's just an attention-grab "i-i'm not b-bad i swear" thing. there are some really terribly shitty people out there doing stupid shit and let them burn themselves out, let the aggressive defenders do the same, sit back, shut up, play some EVE and maybe shoot some people on Counter-Strike or something

ps please stop being mean to people in video games for being women / children, shit's annoying


edit --

For the record, in PS2, that I game on a regular basis, I execute tea-baggers on my own faction on sight, and tell them in no unclear terms why this has been done. Believe it or not, but I agree with you 100% regarding that kind of juvenile behavior.

that doesnt seem like the best way to win people over let alone help your team win territory

[Louella Dougans]

threads like this just remind me how much I am not a part of these "gaming communities", or any "online communities", because I have no idea what this is even about. I spend 60 hours or so a week at work, totally unconnected to the internet, and have no clue about any of this.

[Silas Vitalia]

@ Mizhara thank you for taking the time to write those statistics!

@ Bloodbird very interesting re shooting teabaggers

[Arista Shahni]

Louella, its just RL gender inequality leaking into the internets.

[BloodBird]

Yes, as a gamer I definitely should get lumped in with the prepubescent fuckwits yelling profanity on a console. They are definitely representative of me and my demographic.

The fact that there are minorities (yes, they most definitely are minorities) in every bloody camp out there that takes shit too far is certainly something to consider but the ridiculously stupid hyperbole and raging on the internet does nothing but create more of them. Go on the attack and you'll create enemies. Take a moment, count to ten, have a wank or whatever, then try to empathize with people and you might actually get somewhere. Create conversation. Talk to people instead of attacking them and maybe you won't push them into the mindset that you're actually an enemy they have to fight.

The moment you label people and then go on attacking them, all you've achieved is creating animosity towards you and the point you're trying to make. They'll start doing the same in return and they'll consider themselves justified in doing so.

I have zero sympathy towards the self-victimization people crying about "gamers" as if we're some homogenous group of neckbeard rapist wannabes and while I'd actually sympathize and consider the real problems they pretend to represent, now I really can't be arsed to give a gift-wrapped shit about any of the issues because they went on the assault instead of communication. I'll instead continue doing my work as a board member of the regional humanist association, cooperating with feminist and men's rights advocates towards egalitarian goals. They at least recognize that communication between them brings them both closer to the ultimate goal and while they're opposite sides of the coin, both are better off balancing it on the edge instead of battling over which side the coin should fall on.

Link me this site of yours plz, sounds like something I want to go see. If not in public then my mail-box will do.

This achieves nothing. You're creating enemies by conjuring up some grand "patriarchal system" that doesn't exist.

If that's your opinion on the state of things there's not much else to say, really.

Please compare for me basic stats for:

average wages vs female wages 100% vs 70%
victims of sexual violence by gender
victims of domestic violence by gender
representation in government by gender.  Women make more than 50% of population.  Hint: House: 362 men 76 women   Senate: 83 men 17 women
movies or games with women that can even pass a  Bechdel test? 1%?  5%?

Please, in all seriousness, take a look at the world around you.

FYI:  The Bechdel test asks if a work of fiction features at least two women, who talk to each other about something other than a man.  90% of movies out there do not pass this test, and that's sad.

The only sad thing here is that you had to share this info about your own private religion, and that tells me more about you than I need to know.

This tread is not the place for it. Silas, if you want to ask these things in all seriousness, open a new tread and I will tell you what I think, as well as answer your questions - I should assume that answers is what you want when you ask them, after all.

Until you though this is as far as my contribution goes.

[Arista Shahni]

If reality is religion than we're all very pious, or very atheist.

[Mizhara]

What site? I didn't mention a site, as far as I know. And when did Silas mention religion? I can't find it anywhere.

Edit: Herpaderp, I just realized it was an attempt at equivocation. Nevermind. Bloodbird, the topic of gender inequality is very much involved in the topic at hand. This is why it's an issue that requires significant communication and outreach to each of the multiple sides of the debate, rather than any sort of bombastic statements. Please see the blogpost I linked further up in the thread for more on the matter of nuance here. It's a great read, if you have the time.

As for the organization, www.human.no would be the site for the Humanist organization I'm part of.

[Arista Shahni]

1) YYour organization.

2) My orignal answer was gong to be "wat".

[Arista Shahni]

And here's a piece of my personal story, handled well by someone else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EkuXfsWmMo

[Vizage]

I'm going to just leave this here for all of you.......Enjoy



P.S. Many of these have been committed already in this thread.

[Sorry about the scale.]

[Silas Vitalia]

@ Bloodbird I think gender inequality is very much at the root of your discussion, it drives the criticism of that particular industry and also unfortunately drives the predictable responses.

If my religion is advocating for the marginalized in society then thank you I guess

 

[BloodBird]

For the record, in PS2, that I game on a regular basis, I execute tea-baggers on my own faction on sight, and tell them in no unclear terms why this has been done. Believe it or not, but I agree with you 100% regarding that kind of juvenile behavior.

that doesnt seem like the best way to win people over let alone help your team win territory

If you tell them they are doing themselves and their fellow players a disservice by being immature tools and that there are far better ways to spend their time, it won't be much more than some ignorable, random guy disagreeing with their oh so important marking a single, meaningless kill in a game where death literally lasts for 10 seconds and they just wasted the time they won by teabagging the body.

But, if you hit them in the only thing they care about first - you shoot them and make a dent in their K/D and ego, THEN tell them they are doing themselves and their fellow players a disservice by being immature tools and that there are far better ways to spend their time, and that death literally lasts for 10 seconds and they just wasted the time they won by teabagging the body, THEN they will know what happens when they figuratively lay their hands on the hot plate.

What site? I didn't mention a site, as far as I know. And when did Silas mention religion? I can't find it anywhere.

Edit: Herpaderp, I just realized it was an attempt at equivocation. Nevermind. Bloodbird, the topic of gender inequality is very much involved in the topic at hand. This is why it's an issue that requires significant communication and outreach to each of the multiple sides of the debate, rather than any sort of bombastic statements. Please see the blogpost I linked further up in the thread for more on the matter of nuance here. It's a great read, if you have the time.

As for the organization, www.human.no would be the site for the Humanist organization I'm part of.

Thanks for the link. as for the topic, yeah, given that a grand total of 0 people have given any fucks about signing this so far, apparently mostly because of apathy, the topic is pretty worthless on it's own and we might as well keep the developing conversations right here.

To that effort I'll start with this:

@ SILAS

I've heard the gender pay gap myth so often I've lost count and frankly, can almost recite the answer to it off the top of my head by now. Almost. I'll just leave this here for you, an answer to your first claim in a better way by better educated people than me.

[Silver Night]

Awesome explanation in that video. Edit: Arista's video, that is.

As far as the topic at hand, while I can understand the 'Some bad apples do it, but it totally isn't me/most of us/etc' urge when these kind of issues come up, I don't think it is that helpful. I also think that most of the coverage I've seen hasn't really painted it with that broad a brush. But the truth here is that the portion of this that is most in need of attention is that fact that even a minority of people - and it is apparently not an extremely small minority, given the volume generated every time someone female says something these people disagree with - thinks that sending threats of death and sexual violence  are an appropriate response to any sort of gaming related commentary (or even a possible breach of journalistic ethics. The litmus test I generally apply is, is this the same response a male person in the same position would get. The answer is 'no' with depressing regularity.)

Certainly this is an issue in other places and communities - particularly on the internet - as well, but for whatever reason it does seem there is a particularly virulent strain of it in gaming. I think that rather than dodging responsibility with an 'There are a few people like that, but not most of us, and not [/i]me[/i]' or suggesting it is almost not a problem with 'Its a tiny minority' type declarations, what I try to do is accept that it's a real problem, discourage it if I see it, make sure that places I e-frequent are not friendly to it, and keep an eye on my own tendency to float along in the lazy river of culturally acceptable pigeonholing of people based on sex, gender, race, etc.

Acknowledging a problem like this exists can feel like a personal affront, as can the suggestion that it's the community at fault. But that's what communities are, something we are all contributors to and something we therefore share responsibility for. I'm not angry that I might be tarred with the same brush as some sexist fuckwit. I'm angry that the sexist fuckwits haven't been driven off or drowned out by the rest of us. The community should be unbearably toxic for them, not for women or any other group that are just minding their goddamn business and perhaps expressing opinions on the internet in a reasonable way (even if they are opinions you disagree with).

tl:dr: It isn't a personal insult, and the people on the receiving end probably aren't trying to make you look bad. They are probably just hoping it gets better and eventually stops.

[Lyn Farel]

@ Miz : that's precisely patriarchy, as much as you want to avoid the word, that creates either female or male inequalities. The matter of divorces is not exception to the rule, since the rule clearly points to "gender roles" and basic inequality of sexes, if not in terms of value, then in terms of what their "specialty" should be.

threads like this just remind me how much I am not a part of these "gaming communities", or any "online communities", because I have no idea what this is even about. I spend 60 hours or so a week at work, totally unconnected to the internet, and have no clue about any of this.

I work in the gaming industry and don't even know what the fuss is all about.