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[Katrina Oniseki]

Now that I'm home it is a lot easier to type.

I don't think you need to quit at all. Yes, Foley has become unpopular because he's always been portrayed as immature and unstable. Everything about his personality made him come off as an adolescent. Possibly because you are (not necessarily a bad thing) or were a teenager when you started playing. Nonetheless, he had many character traits that together made him come off as a kid with a gun.

• His gullibility, and vulnerability to being manipulated and/or tricked.
• His emphasized complete lack of experience with members of the opposite sex (or same sex).
• His overemphasis on everything awesome: guns, explosions, destruction, etc
• His lack of accountability and/or responsibility.
• His refusal to heed advice given until he's already passed the point of being helped.

These are some of the common traits attributed to male teenagers. Things many of us can relate to OOC in recent memory and say, "Yeah he's a kid!". At least, I can. A lot of things Foley does seemed funny or cool back in those days, but are tired jokes that I've personally grown out of. A lot of characters probably feel the same way, seeing Foley as very much their inferior because he comes off as a teenager with a rifle.

The fictional-reality here is that Foley represents something incredible and tragic. He is an immortal soldier that has seen and caused more death and destruction than anything you as a player can possibly comprehend. He's experienced extreme emotions on a scale that you and I can't relate to. He's literally died. He's lost limb, parts of his face, entire sections of his body just before dying. He's laid there bleeding out on the ground for hours before finally succumbing to death. He's been through horrifying experiences, and he remembers all of it.

I think a lot of DUST roleplayers get this part wrong, because you're approaching the character from the perspective of a Call of Duty player, not as a war veteran. You're completely missing/skipping the ugly psychological effects of war. You're not alone in this, as I have yet to see a DUST roleplayer that convincingly portrays somebody who's experienced that life. DUST soldiers are likely be certifiably and irrevocably traumatized and/or psychotic, but not in the way you seem to think. It's not cool or funny. It's horrible.

So, if you want to salvage Foley, I think you need to seriously consider removing his humor and playfulness. Somebody like him isn't likely to be concerned with whether Diana Kim gives him a smooch. He's more likely to be suffering constant nightmares, severely alcoholic, prone to emotional outbursts or antisocial tendencies, or other not-fun personality flaws. Foley doesn't need an audience to laugh at his jokes. Foley needs a therapist.

That's the reality of an immortal soldier.

EDIT: I should also point out that you don't want to drift too far in the "war is hell, pay attention to me" direction. I don't want to generalize, but most vets I've been friends with are not eager to talk about the shit they've seen. It's more likely that Foley ought to be a quiet and reserved personality more likely to form friendships with people he served with than random capsuleers. Katrina hasn't experienced what he has. Why should he respect her?

"She's just sitting in some pretty office all day giving orders to the knuckledraggers like me to do the REAL work! Stitcher? Pffft, just some egger trying to run his big jaw, he doesn't actually do any fighting like I do!"

Foley could stand to be more dismissive and condescending to capsuleers, because he's been through enough hell to earn his damn respect. Those who won't respect him anyways?... well they're just not worth his damn attention! At least, that's his point of view.

Go watch some more war movies. Pay close attention to the way the soldiers are when they come home, and how they are with each other in the field.

[Scherezad]

I like Foley, but I guess I've just found the crazy too overwhelming! It's become harder and harder to relate to him as his life story drifts further from the human experience. Kat makes excellent points above! I'm sure that the things you like about him can be saved or repaired, so that you still enjoy him, while at the same time making him more included in the community as a whole.

I'd be happy to provide Scherezad's brain expertises if you want to explain away drastic changes in personality, either ICly if you want special implants or modifications, or OOCly to explain how those changes might happen due to frequent cloning.

[Lyn Farel]

Now that I'm home it is a lot easier to type.

I don't think you need to quit at all. Yes, Foley has become unpopular because he's always been portrayed as immature and unstable. Everything about his personality made him come off as an adolescent. Possibly because you are (not necessarily a bad thing) or were a teenager when you started playing. Nonetheless, he had many character traits that together made him come off as a kid with a gun.

• His gullibility, and vulnerability to being manipulated and/or tricked.
• His emphasized complete lack of experience with members of the opposite sex (or same sex).
• His overemphasis on everything awesome: guns, explosions, destruction, etc
• His lack of accountability and/or responsibility.
• His refusal to heed advice given until he's already passed the point of being helped.

These are some of the common traits attributed to male teenagers. Things many of us can relate to OOC in recent memory and say, "Yeah he's a kid!". At least, I can. A lot of things Foley does seemed funny or cool back in those days, but are tired jokes that I've personally grown out of. A lot of characters probably feel the same way, seeing Foley as very much their inferior because he comes off as a teenager with a rifle.

The fictional-reality here is that Foley represents something incredible and tragic. He is an immortal soldier that has seen and caused more death and destruction than anything you as a player can possibly comprehend. He's experienced extreme emotions on a scale that you and I can't relate to. He's literally died. He's lost limb, parts of his face, entire sections of his body just before dying. He's laid there bleeding out on the ground for hours before finally succumbing to death. He's been through horrifying experiences, and he remembers all of it.

I think a lot of DUST roleplayers get this part wrong, because you're approaching the character from the perspective of a Call of Duty player, not as a war veteran. You're completely missing/skipping the ugly psychological effects of war. You're not alone in this, as I have yet to see a DUST roleplayer that convincingly portrays somebody who's experienced that life. DUST soldiers are likely be certifiably and irrevocably traumatized and/or psychotic, but not in the way you seem to think. It's not cool or funny. It's horrible.

So, if you want to salvage Foley, I think you need to seriously consider removing his humor and playfulness. Somebody like him isn't likely to be concerned with whether Diana Kim gives him a smooch. He's more likely to be suffering constant nightmares, severely alcoholic, prone to emotional outbursts or antisocial tendencies, or other not-fun personality flaws. Foley doesn't need an audience to laugh at his jokes. Foley needs a therapist.

That's the reality of an immortal soldier.

EDIT: I should also point out that you don't want to drift too far in the "war is hell, pay attention to me" direction. I don't want to generalize, but most vets I've been friends with are not eager to talk about the shit they've seen. It's more likely that Foley ought to be a quiet and reserved personality more likely to form friendships with people he served with than random capsuleers. Katrina hasn't experienced what he has. Why should he respect her?

"She's just sitting in some pretty office all day giving orders to the knuckledraggers like me to do the REAL work! Stitcher? Pffft, just some egger trying to run his big jaw, he doesn't actually do any fighting like I do!"

Foley could stand to be more dismissive and condescending to capsuleers, because he's been through enough hell to earn his damn respect. Those who won't respect him anyways?... well they're just not worth his damn attention! At least, that's his point of view.

Go watch some more war movies. Pay close attention to the way the soldiers are when they come home, and how they are with each other in the field.

While I understand and kinda agree with your point, isn't it a bit the same with podders ? The way they die may be a bit less gruesome, but tbh living and dying in that wetgrave might be a real source of trauma. Said that way, everybody might be doing it wrong by playing the lol immortal gods that are so edgy that they don't give two shits and laugh everytime it is mentioned.

Capsuleer dementia and all that. Why would it be different for Dust dementia ? Or if so, is everybody doing it wrong ? Couldn't tell myself tbh.

Also, another thing when you say "I think you need to seriously consider removing his humor and playfulness. Somebody like him isn't likely to be concerned with whether Diana Kim gives him a smooch. He's more likely to be suffering constant nightmares, severely alcoholic, prone to emotional outbursts or antisocial tendencies, or other not-fun personality flaws. Foley doesn't need an audience to laugh at his jokes. Foley needs a therapist.", well, if the community hasn't changed a bit, especially on the summit that I remember Foley spent time on, that advice is to me the best way for the character to be irremediably ostracized. Try to play someone like that and see how far you go... :/

Which is a shame, really. :JCDenton.gif:

[Katrina Oniseki]

Yeah. The community isn't likely to accept what I think a DUSTer would really be like. More than that, it wouldn't be very fun to play somebody so severely off his rocker. Meh.

People are "expected" to show due respect and admiration to certain big names in the community - and the type of guy I think Foley should be is more likely to (for example) quickly tell Morwen "why don't you undock and play hide and go fuck yourself" IC after giving him snark. That's a bad choice OOC, obviously.

[Avio Yaken]

ok so i red everyone post over a few times over

im now going back to my old work and seeing the decline, i notice my writing has been off now and i kinda lost my zing with ti, if you guys are certain can i salvage this fi i jsut took a break then i will attempt this and try to re configure  personality and achieve the balance that i ahd once i started as i notice i had one and it became extremely lop sided, maybe i got carried away with my ego and thought that i can wing it and it would come out good..i mean im honestly completely embarrassed  of my recent work and i want to get that zing back,  but also come in with a new aura of sorts

il take a long break form role play adn see what went wrong and re address thsi all


so..thanks guys :l

[Denak Kalamari]

Now that I'm home it is a lot easier to type.

I don't think you need to quit at all. Yes, Foley has become unpopular because he's always been portrayed as immature and unstable. Everything about his personality made him come off as an adolescent. Possibly because you are (not necessarily a bad thing) or were a teenager when you started playing. Nonetheless, he had many character traits that together made him come off as a kid with a gun.

• His gullibility, and vulnerability to being manipulated and/or tricked.
• His emphasized complete lack of experience with members of the opposite sex (or same sex).
• His overemphasis on everything awesome: guns, explosions, destruction, etc
• His lack of accountability and/or responsibility.
• His refusal to heed advice given until he's already passed the point of being helped.

These are some of the common traits attributed to male teenagers. Things many of us can relate to OOC in recent memory and say, "Yeah he's a kid!". At least, I can. A lot of things Foley does seemed funny or cool back in those days, but are tired jokes that I've personally grown out of. A lot of characters probably feel the same way, seeing Foley as very much their inferior because he comes off as a teenager with a rifle.

The fictional-reality here is that Foley represents something incredible and tragic. He is an immortal soldier that has seen and caused more death and destruction than anything you as a player can possibly comprehend. He's experienced extreme emotions on a scale that you and I can't relate to. He's literally died. He's lost limb, parts of his face, entire sections of his body just before dying. He's laid there bleeding out on the ground for hours before finally succumbing to death. He's been through horrifying experiences, and he remembers all of it.

I think a lot of DUST roleplayers get this part wrong, because you're approaching the character from the perspective of a Call of Duty player, not as a war veteran. You're completely missing/skipping the ugly psychological effects of war. You're not alone in this, as I have yet to see a DUST roleplayer that convincingly portrays somebody who's experienced that life. DUST soldiers are likely be certifiably and irrevocably traumatized and/or psychotic, but not in the way you seem to think. It's not cool or funny. It's horrible.

So, if you want to salvage Foley, I think you need to seriously consider removing his humor and playfulness. Somebody like him isn't likely to be concerned with whether Diana Kim gives him a smooch. He's more likely to be suffering constant nightmares, severely alcoholic, prone to emotional outbursts or antisocial tendencies, or other not-fun personality flaws. Foley doesn't need an audience to laugh at his jokes. Foley needs a therapist.

That's the reality of an immortal soldier.

EDIT: I should also point out that you don't want to drift too far in the "war is hell, pay attention to me" direction. I don't want to generalize, but most vets I've been friends with are not eager to talk about the shit they've seen. It's more likely that Foley ought to be a quiet and reserved personality more likely to form friendships with people he served with than random capsuleers. Katrina hasn't experienced what he has. Why should he respect her?

"She's just sitting in some pretty office all day giving orders to the knuckledraggers like me to do the REAL work! Stitcher? Pffft, just some egger trying to run his big jaw, he doesn't actually do any fighting like I do!"

Foley could stand to be more dismissive and condescending to capsuleers, because he's been through enough hell to earn his damn respect. Those who won't respect him anyways?... well they're just not worth his damn attention! At least, that's his point of view.

Go watch some more war movies. Pay close attention to the way the soldiers are when they come home, and how they are with each other in the field.

While I understand and kinda agree with your point, isn't it a bit the same with podders ? The way they die may be a bit less gruesome, but tbh living and dying in that wetgrave might be a real source of trauma. Said that way, everybody might be doing it wrong by playing the lol immortal gods that are so edgy that they don't give two shits and laugh everytime it is mentioned.

Capsuleer dementia and all that. Why would it be different for Dust dementia ? Or if so, is everybody doing it wrong ? Couldn't tell myself tbh.

While the constant deaths, screaming, blood etc. can be quite tolling on the mind for a duster initially, keep in mind that they have to do this over and over and over and over again until the end of times. You might be mentally unstable and suffered extreme psychological trauma, but I've always thought that past a certain point, when you've just kept dying and woken up again in a new body only to die again, you just stop caring. Pain is irrelevant and barely notable, morality is just some foreign and alien concept and generally just not caring about anything at all.

I'd say that with dusters, or the older ones that have been through several generations of implants, have more cases of chronic depression and extreme apathy than just being psychotic and/or deeply traumatized. I've tried to explore this aspect with Denak.

But yes, more often than not the few dust roleplayers that are around, even less of them really think what it would be like to die a thousand times and more.

And personally, I recommend you keep on going Foley. Your and my characters may have never really gotten along that well, but I found the insanity part of Foley kind of fascinating myself.

[Dessau]

I'm not familiar with the character, and I know even less about Dust mercs, but there are plenty of easy-to-digest cultural references to the psychological struggles of military veterans, which you may or may not have infused into your play.

There's a sort of pattern from fear to dread to helplessness to hopelessness to apathy, as Denak stated. Along the way there may be a number of coping mechanisms.

There's the X-Files episode "Sleepless" where vets who have had their nervous systems tampered with experience a more-or-less ceaseless hell of hyperconsciousness. Katee Sackhoff as Kara Thrace on BSG, contending with the ever-present spectres of death, guilt, and desire, experiences sudden shifts in mood, fits of violence, and long periods of substance abuse. Going further back, Marlon Brando as Colonel Kurtz, who amidst the horror, has come to accept it as a natural state of being, with himself master of it.

So maybe there's a process here that this duster could still be working through.

v0v

[Vincent Pryce]

You can either be a punk ass bitch and quit or you can take step back, have a breather and then deal with the mess you've made. It ain't gonna be easy, but you're the only one that can do it, and until you do, no amount of new characters and alts will really change things. This shit will stick OOC even if some like to pretend it don't, but it does. That's the reality of it.

Hell, if Jurou can more or less lose his rapey stalker type reputation by re-evaluating his shit over, you too can turn this boat around. I believe in Foley Jones.

[Katrina Oniseki]

You can either be a punk ass bitch and quit or you can take step back, have a breather and then deal with the mess you've made. It ain't gonna be easy, but you're the only one that can do it, and until you do, no amount of new characters and alts will really change things. This shit will stick OOC even if some like to pretend it don't, but it does. That's the reality of it.

Hell, if Jurou can more or less lose his rapey stalker type reputation by re-evaluating his shit over, you too can turn this boat around. I believe in Foley Jones.

In classic Finnish style, Vince delivers the finisher. ..
 
.. or should I say, the Finnisher.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Louella Dougans]

"The Forever War", by Joe Haldeman, is a good book, and may be helpful, since it deals with a soldier's alienation from civilisation.

even if it's not helpful in the RP sense, it's a good read, so get it from your local library.

[Avio Yaken]

You can either be a punk ass bitch and quit or you can take step back, have a breather and then deal with the mess you've made. It ain't gonna be easy, but you're the only one that can do it, and until you do, no amount of new characters and alts will really change things. This shit will stick OOC even if some like to pretend it don't, but it does. That's the reality of it.

Hell, if Jurou can more or less lose his rapey stalker type reputation by re-evaluating his shit over, you too can turn this boat around. I believe in Foley Jones.

i have already declared i will try and fix this, i have hope that i may be able to make something of this, il lay low for awhile and reshape my character and come back with anew glow and everything

[Morwen Lagann]

Some thoughts I had while I was at work.

First - Foley, again, you've shown why people took to you when you first showed up in OOC after Dust was connected to TQ for the first time. You showed up, asked questions, got answers, and were persistent about doing this whenever you wanted to know something. You showed people you intended to be around for the long term. And here you are asking people for advice about a problem that's bothering you personally. That's the right attitude to take.

Second - Kat's second post highlights a lot of things that came to mind when I first saw the thread. The first section in particular - I was going to say that Foley, of late, has increasingly come across as the stereotypical male teenager who'll do anything, no matter how dumb it is, just to impress that girl who sits a couple desks down. There's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping in touch with one's inner child, but there's definitely such a thing as overdoing it. As such I will disagree - partially - with Kat's suggestion (as worded) to remove the humor and playfulness. Dial it back, yes. Remove it entirely, no.*

Third - you've had some suggestions in various directions of changes you might consider making. Similar to the first point, asking for help is the first step; sifting through what you get back and deciding what to keep/toss is the next. This is exactly the kind of thing this forum exists for, so there's no need to feel awkward or uncomfortable bringing it up.


*Personal thoughts on this - consider keeping the gung-ho, wiseass, active attitude, but dropping the tendency to do things that amount to self-mutilation for comedy's sake (finger-dancing with nova knives, grenades in a blender, etc - that sort of thing). Fine-tune from there as needed.

[Havohej]

I've created a somewhat more moderate-in-tone, even philanthropic Havohej since returning to Eve last year.  If I can do that, you can turn Foley into a more serious part of New Eden's dramatis personae.

Honestly, it doesn't even seem so difficult from where I'm sitting.  Just have him wake up one morning and say, "You know what... I'm tired of being the ass end of every joke.  Fuck these podders and their elitism."  Or something like that.  And suddenly (yet gradually), people would begin to see that Foley's sense of humor and aptness to engage in inane antics has severely curtailed.  These people would then be more or less forced to take a second, longer look at this Duster showing up in their channels and at their functions (and whatever else you've been doing with Foley).

.02 ISK.

[genofunk]

Some thoughts I had while I was at work.

First - Foley, again, you've shown why people took to you when you first showed up in OOC after Dust was connected to TQ for the first time. You showed up, asked questions, got answers, and were persistent about doing this whenever you wanted to know something. You showed people you intended to be around for the long term. And here you are asking people for advice about a problem that's bothering you personally. That's the right attitude to take.

Second - Kat's second post highlights a lot of things that came to mind when I first saw the thread. The first section in particular - I was going to say that Foley, of late, has increasingly come across as the stereotypical male teenager who'll do anything, no matter how dumb it is, just to impress that girl who sits a couple desks down. There's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping in touch with one's inner child, but there's definitely such a thing as overdoing it. As such I will disagree - partially - with Kat's suggestion (as worded) to remove the humor and playfulness. Dial it back, yes. Remove it entirely, no.*

Third - you've had some suggestions in various directions of changes you might consider making. Similar to the first point, asking for help is the first step; sifting through what you get back and deciding what to keep/toss is the next. This is exactly the kind of thing this forum exists for, so there's no need to feel awkward or uncomfortable bringing it up.


*Personal thoughts on this - consider keeping the gung-ho, wiseass, active attitude, but dropping the tendency to do things that amount to self-mutilation for comedy's sake (finger-dancing with nova knives, grenades in a blender, etc - that sort of thing). Fine-tune from there as needed.

I agree with morwen!

I would also like to add that this is inherently a multiplayer game.. Find the people you relate to ic and stick with them.. I am doing this with sani sabik and on a more personal level with my only corpmate, ic fiance, Zenariae. We do crazy shit too. Just not publicly and we always have an ingame ic reason.. Maybe Foley would like to visit us in KFIE-Z sometime?

[Streya]

I can honestly relate a lot to your situation, Foley. On my first character I roleplayed very poorly and found a niche in being a dramaclown. It's good that you recognize something is amiss and I do suggest you keep at it if you're willing to change and develop your roleplay style.

In regards to personality changes and consciousness during clone-death, it is definitely the case that Dusters are every bit as vulnerable to personality and whole memory modifications during the cloning process. That is what happened to some of the first Templars and how the Other (an emergant AI entity(ies?) that came to be in the Architects' Construct) managed to get a foothold in New Eden. This is all strictly out of character knowledge of course, but the fact that such dramatic personality shifts happen and is canon gives us all significant leeway in changing the way our characters behave. I recommend you take advantage of this. Good luck!