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[Shanty Anzomi]

I know that most capsuleer are heartless killing machines and i try to take another way in this aspect. I did some rp with this but i had this doubt the other night.
When you destroy a structure, or a ship you virtually destroy everyone inside.
But the thing is this, I dont blow up structures and i have the idea of returning with my Noctis and a group of soldiers inside of it, to perform rescue and capture upon survivers and prisoners. In other words, rescuing people inside structures and capturing enemies of the wrecks or structures or scape pods.
Is this possible in a rp way? I mean, this isnt god mode or something like that?
Or we capsuleer are destined to be heartless killing machines because the game dont give us another choise with its mechanics?

[Jace]

As long as the structure is an NPC one, it is plausible. If it is a POS, you would have to coordinate with the owners of it OOCly. The main issue is if an entire structure is obliterated, how many survivors could you really expect to find? That's the debate that needs to be had. And once it does happen, it will be TonyG vs. The Cluster as always.

[Techie Kanenald]

I know that most capsuleer are heartless killing machines and i try to take another way in this aspect. I did some rp with this but i had this doubt the other night.
When you destroy a structure, or a ship you virtually destroy everyone inside.
But the thing is this, I dont blow up structures and i have the idea of returning with my Noctis and a group of soldiers inside of it, to perform rescue and capture upon survivers and prisoners. In other words, rescuing people inside structures and capturing enemies of the wrecks or structures or scape pods.
Is this possible in a rp way? I mean, this isnt god mode or something like that?
Or we capsuleer are destined to be heartless killing machines because the game dont give us another choise with its mechanics?

As one of the notorious "carebears", I've often been criticized for not wanting to shoot anything at all.  I've attempted to start many such endeavors as your's, and every time the community has told me I'm stupid for it.

As much as I've tried to fight the image, to the community it seems that the capsuleer is a mass murdering psychopath...and well, I wish you luck, 'cause I'm tired of fighting that we aren't.

[Jace]

While it is plausible that you could go back and try a rescue operation, it does seem inconsistent with blowing it up in the first place as Techie implied - and it is true, that inconsistency will be pointed out to you incessantly.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Generally, Arnulf only destroys structures that he is specifically tasked to in the mission brief. I figure this as a quirk of him being born, and initially raised, on a station.

He used to go a bit nuts when dealing with groups he particularly dislikes (Blooders & Sansha mainly). But these days he leaves these alone as well, figuring once he has cleared out the guard ships then Fleet & RSS elements will want to board for intelligence gathering purposes.

These days the only stuff he goes scorched earth over are rogue drones. Annoyingly some missions have bits of scenery named infected asteroid & the like that are immune to damage.

[Morwen Lagann]

Depends on the structure, imo.

There's a particular Blooder exploration site I run into frequently that drops a bunch of slaves, slavers and hounds when you destroy the structure that is one of the two escalation triggers. (The escalation itself has at least one mission that does this again, where either a faction rat or a large structure is the trigger for the escalation.)

Said structure has a lot of HP and takes nearly a full reload's worth of HM fury missiles from my Tengu to chew through - plenty of time for there to be warning for people to get to escape mechanisms and whatnot. If it were a much smaller/weaker structure that only like, took one shot to blow up? Probably not something I could justify doing much of anything with, myself.

Since I have to blow the thing up to get the escalation, what I typically have done is handwave a rescue operation with boarding parties sent in while I'm clearing tackle and neuting rats from the field; once those rats are off the field and I focus on the structure, the boarding teams return with rescued prisoners (slaves), apprehended Blooder overseers (slavers) and hounds - the numbers of each that are dropped in the can when the structure is destroyed I consider to be the number that either weren't killed by the Blooders in a scorched-earth policy (the slaves), or couldn't escape the boarding teams (the slavers).

So I'm kind of inverting the order of gameplay (recovering people before the can spawns) and the literal identity of some of the livestock items for RP purposes (since, really, 'slavers' in a Blooder facility are going to be Blooders, the slaves are going to be kidnapping victims whether or not they were slaves beforehand).

As for the destruction of the structure, I consider it a denial of assets. By destroying it 'after' I've rescued people from it I prevent it from being used again, provide a little bit of closure to those rescued, and of course snuff out a number of heretics all at the same time.

As for what I do with those people:
- After I'd collected a nice large batch of hounds, Morwen donated them to Istvaan, who had a place for them (got some fun RP out of that one, thanks Istvaan ♥) to be fed and taken care of.
- Slavers (aka overseers/Blooder crew) go into a special quarantine area. I handed off about 250 of them to Aldrith at one point during the KotMC 2.0 era for him to 'deal with'. Coming up on about that many now and need something to do with them, actually...
- The slaves (aka, rescued people that may or may not have been slaves to begin with) are provided housing, medical care and other amenities. I've tried starting some little RP arcs to get them sent 'home' but the last one or two I attempted kinda fell flat when people on both sides stopped responding to mail. In the meantime, those who were able to work (presumably most of them) have been given temporary stationside employment in TYRIN facilities for some spending money and to keep them doing something, since activity is healthy.

Aside from these I usually ignore structures that aren't required for progression.

Except Sansha ones.

Those can die in a fire. Repeatedly.

[Lyn Farel]

I don't see why it wouldn't make sense for a capsuleer to come back. It is true that it would seem unusual : why blow them up into pieces in the first place indeed ? You can still play someone with a code of honour. That your capsuleer is not here to kill the people inside, but just to fulfill military objectives.

One can even be a heartless bastard, but a civilized one. It doesn't take long to look back in time at middle ages or even better, after with the reign of aristocracy. They used to kill each other happily on the battlefield, but never really did outside of those. It was "civilized". Even someone like Napoleon that all Europe aristocracy hated so much never got executed. Surviving men at arms neither (even if it was butchery on the battlefield at times). True, leaders of that time did not either get back to the battlefield to heal and help the wounded. Most of the time it was done by themselves or doctors.

Especially for an Amarr character, I could see that happen.

For my character usually it makes more sense that she just sends a signal to the SOE after cleaning up a site.

But honestly, if you take the time to do it yourself (salvage, loot, whatever), I don't see why anyone would object that you actually did it, since it's... NPCs. They could say that your character is weird, true. Well, most RPers play abnormal capsuleers anyway.


Edit : ah yes, there was that PF bit about crews survival rates, and the more quickly a ship was destroyed (supposedly, a frigate), the more deadly it was in terms of casualties (the ratio of dead, not the amount).

[Elmund Egivand]

Always angers me that we can't just capture the towers. Elmund prefers capture over destruction of enemy infrastructures because, you know, the destruction of a perfectly fine tower is just wasteful. He hates wastes.

[Morwen Lagann]

Always angers me that we can't just capture the towers. Elmund prefers capture over destruction of enemy infrastructures because, you know, the destruction of a perfectly fine tower is just wasteful. He hates wastes.

Normally I'd agree, but the amount of cleaning required to make a facility that used to belong to Blooders fit for actual human beings is a bit on the exorbitant side. (In my example, anyway.)

Might as well just purge it with fire and extreme prejudice and build something clean from scratch.

[Samira Kernher]

My rule is that looting constitutes confiscating useful equipment along with survivors, using the New Eden crew guidelines page as a basis to determine quantity of survivors (for ships, at least. Stations are up in the air, but would probably have fairly high survival rate due to how long it takes for them to be destroyed and as they would likely have escape pods/shuttles and multiple emergency rooms with self-sustainted pressurization/life support).

Basically, if you take the time to loot something then you're justified in claiming that you've rescued/captured survivors in my book.

[Katrina Oniseki]

My rule is that looting constitutes confiscating useful equipment along with survivors, using the New Eden crew guidelines page as a basis to determine quantity of survivors (for ships, at least. Stations are up in the air, but would probably have fairly high survival rate due to how long it takes for them to be destroyed and as they would likely have escape pods/shuttles and multiple emergency rooms with self-sustainted pressurization/life support).

Basically, if you take the time to loot something then you're justified in claiming that you've rescued/captured survivors in my book.

I thought PF said that survivors are mostly on lifeboats that eject and auto-warp to a random safe spot? Thus, by the time you get to the wreck, the only 'survivors' are those trapped in small pockets of intact hull sections who did not get to a lifeboat. Rescuing/capturing them would be a time consuming and dangerous operation for everybody involved.

[V. Gesakaarin]

If it's just structures, I would think the most efficient method would be to say you shot out the life support systems and then say, "You now have two choices, you can either die or you can surrender to my nice and friendly boarding team." Then say you destroyed the structure.

End of the day you don't see the crew or any other human beings so you can pretty much say what you want I guess.

[Samira Kernher]

My rule is that looting constitutes confiscating useful equipment along with survivors, using the New Eden crew guidelines page as a basis to determine quantity of survivors (for ships, at least. Stations are up in the air, but would probably have fairly high survival rate due to how long it takes for them to be destroyed and as they would likely have escape pods/shuttles and multiple emergency rooms with self-sustainted pressurization/life support).

Basically, if you take the time to loot something then you're justified in claiming that you've rescued/captured survivors in my book.

I thought PF said that survivors are mostly on lifeboats that eject and auto-warp to a random safe spot? Thus, by the time you get to the wreck, the only 'survivors' are those trapped in small pockets of intact hull sections who did not get to a lifeboat. Rescuing/capturing them would be a time consuming and dangerous operation for everybody involved.

Removing and transferring modules and cargo to your ship would also be a time consuming operation, yet we do that just fine. Also, modules themselves are crewed components--so any intact module is likely to have its crew remaining inside it.

Lifeboats are likely going to be more of a factor for larger ships rather than smaller ones, since smaller ships are destroyed too fast for the crew to reach lifeboats. I would expect survival to be based around being lucky enough to have been in compartmentalized, self-sustaining sections of the ship which were not destroyed in the actual battle (or in other words, intact modules).

When lifeboats are a factor, some might get away though there would still likely be holdover survivors on the ship modules (especially if you've kept those modules active right up until getting destroyed).

Stations are the one area where there will probably be much more escaping on lifeboats, as they take so long to destroy and don't really have much in the way of modules to loot. I'd still say the person who loots is the person who gets to decide what happens to the survivors, because even if a lifepod escapes and warps off, the ship can use its scanner to find them (as lifepods are probably going to be very easy to find as they would have distress beacons).

[Katrina Oniseki]

All true points, and pretty much what I was saying but just didn't feel like typing.

Anyways, what Veik said. Since there is no ingame representation, and no other players involved... you can just about say whatever you want.

[Jace]

All true points, and pretty much what I was saying but just didn't feel like typing.

Anyways, what Veik said. Since there is no ingame representation, and no other players involved... you can just about say whatever you want.

Unicorns. I found so many unicorns.