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[Alain Colcer]

All this neat analysis kinda invites me to do the same thing but for Gallente corps...

[Anja Suorsa]

It is mentioned in the guri-pf that a lot of their members come from Caldari Navy and from the disenfranchised of the State. Such as the gay population - see such officers as Kaikka Peunato. Being gay is not ok in the State even if the player base conveniently like to ignore it for their purposes. Unless they have changed this again recently, you can find this in Kaikka's in-game bio.

It is slightly off-piste and I voluntarily poke my head over the parapet, but I have always wondered about this. I assume current RL sensitivities take precidence over the PF in this case which I find at least a little disappointing. It certainly adds further avenues for conflict which would spur more things on; In game conflicts, RP, all sorts.

ninja Edit: It goes way back to post collapse days when everything on Caldari Prime was geared towards survival. While not entirely relevant to modern society, the Caldari are well noted traditionalists. I don't , personally, see them disregarding this part (or any part) of their history so light-heartedly. It is a small part of what makes them who they are, as a people.

[Jace]

All this neat analysis kinda invites me to do the same thing but for Gallente corps...

Do eeeeet.

Interesting points about the practicals.

Though as far as I know, only NOH holds the tags and other ties to Guristas. In many ways I found NOH to be in similar relationship to the Guristas as the Serpentis is to the Angel Cartel, but that's more my speculation than solid pf fact.

It is mentioned in the guri-pf that a lot of their members come from Caldari Navy and from the disenfranchised of the State. Such as the gay population - see such officers as Kaikka Peunato. Being gay is not ok in the State even if the player base conveniently like to ignore it for their purposes. Unless they have changed this again recently, you can find this in Kaikka's in-game bio.

There has always been a lot of debate about this issue. It is usually accepted, due to Kaikka, that homophobia is a big part of CN and likely within the Patriot bloc. But, since Kaikka is really all we have on that topic we don't really know what Caldari culture as a whole would say about it.

It would make sense that the Patriot bloc would have issues with it, especially with Caldari spiritualism being so ancestral and tradition-focused. That being said, they just need to give us more PF on Caldari culture so these kinds of debates can cease.

Though, something tells me no amount of PF is going to stop straight guys from RPing lesbians. 

NOH also has heavy ties to the Guristas Pirates, and not so subtle at that either. I still have my 10 Nugoeihuvi dogtags with Guristas skullbunny on them.

Kaalakiota and SuVee's early rivalry started over increasing the power and prestige of the Caldari Navy - Kaalakiota wanted to increase it's budget and SuVee wanted to develop land.    While officially each member of the CEP has equal say in the control of the Caldari Navy - Kaalakiota and it's political allies Lai Dai and Wiyrkomi are very much involved in building naval ships, infrastructure and developing new weapons for the Caldari Navy.   Those three also heavily promote a culture of honoring members of the military.

It's probably safe to guess then that most of the Caldari Navy's admiralty are probably sourced from one of those three or at the very least have a closer working relationship than they likely have with say SuVee or NOH.

Given the dominance of their rivals over the Caldari Navy, and a major point of contention being the strength of the Navy, it does make a certain sense that they'd use 'outlaws' to do their biding.  Makes me think that that Guristas might be more apart of the State's structure than is apparent.

This makes even more sense if the Peace and Order Unit and Internal Security are both primarily ground based military/civilian police force.   The Guristas could provide a self funding and deniable naval force to achieve SuVee and NOH's strategic objectives.   

Further, while I mentioned above that I think the majority of the Caldari Navy's brass and even rank and file comes from the Patriot faction, some certainly have to come from Practical sources.   

Unlike their Patriot cohorts they may not been indoctrinated to believe the Caldari Navy is the height of honor.  In fact the may have been raised in a culture that subtly frowns upon naval service.  When their tour of duty is up, or if they've decided they just don't fit into the Patriot dominated CN culture, they have a skill set that isn't that useful to SuVee or NOH proper.   

The Guristas on the other hand have plenty of use for them.   This could lead to a common personnel flow of:  Practical Corp -> Caldari Navy -> Guristas.  Perhaps within the Practical culture it isn't even considered a dishonor to join the Guristas. No more so than peddling Gallente porn anyway.

 I think the Guristas PF does mention that the majority of it's officers come from the CN and aren't home grown, so if the average Guristas recruit grew up in a Practical corp, then culturally the Guristas and Practicals would more similar than other groups. Further, it would much easier for them to do business with the practicals since most of their members would have points of contact (family) within them.

Since the Guristas are even bigger than than Home Guard and perhaps even rival the Navy in size why wouldn't the Practicals use them as often as possible?

Since the Practicals favor mercantilism, which includes the use of wealth/military to acquire more wealth/firepower then they could be deliberately  promoting the flow of personal into the CN for training and then into the Guristas who control vast amounts of space and resources in nullsec.   Perhaps those Guristas NPC out in Venal are for all intent and purposes  SuVee or NOH employees.

Even if it isn't necessarily  a deliberate grand strategy by the Practical leadership - the Caldari are entrepreneurs.    If the Practicals teach a mercantilistic school of economics to their members then perhaps it's a case of self starting Practical entrepreneurs using what they are taught to break off and acquire wealth out on the frontier.     They may even have  part of their business operating as above the board citizens under a SuVee or NOH banner while the other half is out hunting rare mineral deposits under Gurista's flag (and of course shooting and looting anybody they happen to come across in the process).   

While I agree that it makes sense that A) NOH would have significant connections to Guristas, and B) NOH probably has a lot of similarities with organized crime in the State, I think we do need to be a little hesitant to argue for a very casual approach to NOH's criminal activities. While the rumors are very widespread, the PF clearly states that their connections to the underworld haven't been proven - this does imply a certain level of limited interaction just short of full-on "working partnership", etc.

[Jace]

It is mentioned in the guri-pf that a lot of their members come from Caldari Navy and from the disenfranchised of the State. Such as the gay population - see such officers as Kaikka Peunato. Being gay is not ok in the State even if the player base conveniently like to ignore it for their purposes. Unless they have changed this again recently, you can find this in Kaikka's in-game bio.

It is slightly off-piste and I voluntarily poke my head over the parapet, but I have always wondered about this. I assume current RL sensitivities take precidence over the PF in this case which I find at least a little disappointing. It certainly adds further avenues for conflict which would spur more things on; In game conflicts, RP, all sorts.

ninja Edit: It goes way back to post collapse days when everything on Caldari Prime was geared towards survival. While not entirely relevant to modern society, the Caldari are well noted traditionalists. I don't , personally, see them disregarding this part (or any part) of their history so light-heartedly. It is a small part of what makes them who they are, as a people.

I've always viewed this as having to do with the trifecta: Caldari spiritualism (ancestry), State militarism, and the State's well-known history of population problems (tube children).

But, as with almost every heteronormative society in the history of ever, it seems logical that there would be significant portions of the population that don't really care about it. Practical bloc, especially with their lack of moralistic tendencies, has always seemed the most likely to not care.

That being said, if the society is homophobic to the point of someone getting removed from the CN, it is likely that those who tolerate it wouldn't be particularly vocal about it. On the other hand, militaries are often the last part of a culture to change on this topic. It is possible that CN acts in such a way that is a remnant of eras past, beyond what the rest of the State perceives. Most RPers that even pay attention to this part of the PF treat it as "Don't Ask Don't Tell" on a whole societal level.

As can be seen by the hemming and hawing this issue causes, we really need more PF about it State moral values.

[purple]

 Perhaps it's not so much that he was gay, but that he's gay and flaunting it.     That is what seemed to be suggested in the one museum chronicle anyhow.   If everyone wears a green shirt on casual Friday and you consistently wear a blue one and drive flashy Kaalakiota model A hover car to work while everyone else in your pay-grade drives the conservative model C  then you will  be ostracized in Caldari society.   I don’t think what you do behind closed doors really matters to the Caldari, even if it’s an open secret, as long as you make the effort  to appear the same as everyone else (in your pay grade) in public.

I’m thinking that Kaikka didn’t even try keeping his business private and it was his disruptive ‘I’m not just another cog in the machine’ attitude that was the real taboo.

[Jace]

Perhaps it's not so much that he was gay, but that he's gay and flaunting it.     That is what seemed to be suggested in the one museum chronicle anyhow.   If everyone wears a green shirt on casual Friday and you consistently wear a blue one and drive flashy Kaalakiota model A hover car to work while everyone else in your pay-grade drives the conservative model C  then you will  be ostracized in Caldari society.   I don’t think what you do behind closed doors really matters to the Caldari, even if it’s an open secret, as long as you make the effort  to appear the same as everyone else (in your pay grade) in public.

I’m thinking that Kaikka didn’t even try keeping his business private and it was his disruptive ‘I’m not just another cog in the machine’ attitude that was the real taboo.

This is essentially what I was implying when I said the RP community seems to always take a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" approach to gays in the State, at least when dealing with public figures and militaristic types.

[V. Gesakaarin]

This is essentially what I was implying when I said the RP community seems to always take a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" approach to gays in the State, at least when dealing with public figures and militaristic types.

Much of Veikitamo's front-facing public persona such as being staunchly bellicose, prejudiced, and vitriolic towards others (especially dirty foreigners) with a deeply militarist and nationalist angle is because it's somewhat an open secret that she's a homosexual.

Then again that's what makes Caldari fun, because in the PF they really are portrayed as that socially conservative, isolationist, xenophobic, racist, militarist, hetero normative, homophobic society.