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[Arista Shahni]

You know this has all been making me think.

Not sure about what, exactly. 

... what it likely is .. *caffeinates*

Once upon a time people played EVE and there was this pretty simplistic - you fight you, and you fight you, and you are allied with them, now go.  If you want.  Other wise you do what the hell you want.  Go.  Blow up ships.  And minmatars and gallente were blue with CVA and defended their sapce and projects and didn't give a damn what their Char sheets said, and all was Being Built.  "Good", "Bad", whatever.

And the "golden age" of RP was likely all caricature and yelling crap in local like Amarr Victor and who the heck knows what else.    And there's a possibility that things can indeed get too complicated that the initial point is missed, and that's likely what happened.

The initial point of EVE is go out there and make a name for yourself - whether that name is "Yeh.  This is me.  I'm on top of some part of the digital world here",or "I am part of this big thing that is on top of the digital world".

Then there's all this "snuggly carebear RP", which lol, we know it isn't snuggly or carebear, no matter how many personal rules this particular group has in regards to what we 'allow' to be done and not to be done -- they're not any different than any other groups 'cliques' rules, and fit into the general overarching EVE rule of "EVE is EVE and real life is real life and the two shouldn't meet, save in bars, on friendly terms (and if people in bars can't remember the friendly terms part they should give themselves wakeup calls) because in the end it is a game about people shooting spaceships or making spaceships and selling bits of spaceships that you do in between real life.  It's about being part of something bigger, RPing it or not, and the RP META which gets lost by some is that they shouldn't divert.  Hence you mining in game? You're mining IC. You die in game? you died IC.  etc.

For me anyway I play EVE to play EVE.  Though RP has held me here longer than my other stints, it could have been anything else - and I can't even say it is just the "RP" that does it, as "RP" is just a group of people with similar interests, yeh. So same as every other MMO.  You get to the point where it is the people that hold you somewhere in a game when the game isn't keeping you occupied enough on itself.

So when this convo was happening live and I got pointed out as a "loyalist" that doesn't FW I kinda had to blink and go "whoa".  Number one, the Khanid Kingdom has no faction warfare army so I can't possibly be a FW loyalist for Amarr , and number two, I can't PvP all day.  Also, things I couldn't much say during a basic text flood wall that was going on at that point, Arista was never defined as a LOYALIST in the giant bloody letters of PvP FW or even in giant gold glittery letters of Amarr BASIC roleplay of "hey look I'm Amarr".  Her FIRST "loyalist" move was joining the Societas when my nonRP corp went so fucking derp (in my opinion) that I threw my Directors keys and left.  At that point I'd already been spending so much time with the intercorporation/ interfactional RP community that I was spending MORE time with "them" (aka you guys) than my own corpmates because I was getting run roughshod over in actual corporate matters in regards to security, diplomacy, etc - all of the things I was supposed to be doing, but were getting done by other people cause lets face it - in the nonRP world of EVE, I was given a director position because I have girl-parts. 

Anyway.

Also, Caldari is in a weird position.  As has been pointed out, Heth is gone now, the State is again the superconglomerate of 8 Megas with a few dozen other smaller-than-megas sprinkled into the mix.  So now what?  There's a ton of other stuff that will "hold" Caldari together in a deeper RP meaning than "Hurr my character sheet says I'm Caldari", but these are things that the RP worldbuilding people have built.

TBH, to me, from an IC (translated to OOC standpoint) I-RED is this Very VERY Caldari group, but very damned enigmatic to me (well ofc, they live in null).  So if questions of their loyalty are coming from anywhere, it is coming from Inside of the "State", and well.. wouldn't that be just what the heck is going to happen if a figurehead gets popped off like the top of a dandylion?
 

[Vincent Pryce]

Oh, and we're apparently fighting Duty. now. I'm not sure if Andreus wants to use that IC or not, but it's an OOC fight down in Syndicate for sure. It could be spun to be a fight between Ishukone and Federation influence over Syndicate?

You should probably do your homework about Duty before making that claim, or even assume it is 'Andy's group'.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Oh, and we're apparently fighting Duty. now. I'm not sure if Andreus wants to use that IC or not, but it's an OOC fight down in Syndicate for sure. It could be spun to be a fight between Ishukone and Federation influence over Syndicate?

You should probably do your homework about Duty before making that claim, or even assume it is 'Andy's group'.

No, I'm already aware. I got it mixed up with Moira. for some reason, which is the Federation one.

I know Duty. used to be Caldari, hence the whole fight between him and Pyre-Falcon on the IGS over the "Duty" appellation. I don't know if it has a roleplay affiliation at all anymore, since they've joined an otherwise non-aligned alliance.

I never claimed it was 'Andy's group', though. You even quoted me, so I don't know why I have to type it a second time. I said I was not sure if he wants to use the fight IC or not. He's the only roleplayer I know of in that corp and has been very vocal in defense of that corporation on the IGS and here recently.

Thanks for the heads up though.

[Vincent Pryce]

Also, as much as can be 'held', I-RED holds a couple constellations in NPC null. So to speak. Sortof. Though Andreus' group is giving it some good contest!

This is why I made the comment about Andy's group, could be I read more into that than was originally intended.

[Makkal]

There have been a number of good suggestions in this thread, but I have to ask: why does it matter?

Your character is loyal to the state. Why are you seeking this sort of acknowledgment from other characters?

[Katrina Oniseki]

There have been a number of good suggestions in this thread, but I have to ask: why does it matter?

Your character is loyal to the state. Why are you seeking this sort of acknowledgment from other characters?

I'm not.

Keep in mind, the purpose of this thread is to help me find ideas of what sorts of things I can do that would be a visible IC loyalist move. I'm asking for actual things to do. Actions. Events. Playstyles. Roleplay. I'm not asking for advice on whether or not I will be accepted or what the outcome will be. I'm also not asking for validation or opinions on how Caldari she is.

I'm just looking for ideas on specific things to do. Because I'm kind of bored, and I want to get the loyalist Caldari RP ball rolling again.

I just wanted to find some loyalist things to do.

Anyways, the purpose of this thread has been filled. I've got some good ideas that I will put in the works.

Thanks everyone!

[Erys Charantes]

Considering the matter further, a resource trade might be a way of forming a more tangible bridge.  It would certainly give the facwar bunch a reason to mind their words a bit more...  That said, I'd say stand your ground when it comes to somebody pushing the bad Caldari card.  A boatload of killmails does nothing to lend credence to a character who does nothing but deride others for doing their part ICly for the State in another venue.  If anything, it's completely anathema to a meritocracy that recognizes everyone's contributions.

The only reason Pyre is in FW was because it was conceived as a Kaalakiota aligned PMC -- what's the point of being a corporate merc if you're not doing merc things like shooting people in the face and getting kills as the metric of your success? That and it was never intended down the track to be, "Good Caldari Loyalists" as much as, "Grimdark Kaalakiota boat violencers." Is implying other Caldari corporate citizens outside the Patriot bloc just aren't good enough, tough enough, and don't have the best interests of the State at heart for not prescribing to Patriot political and economic corporate agendas now anathema?

To me, being part of Kaalakiota is to follow a line of thinking that frankly anyone not Kaalakiota, Wiyrkomi, or Lai Dai to be held with a degree of contempt because you're the best and they're not. Doesn't matter if they're fellow Caldari or not.

Veik...  We need to talk sometime.  You've asked me for some perspective a couple of times in the past.  I think I can cut a clearer picture in real time, face to face, so to speak, and forum tag isn't the best way to commiserate.

[Saede Riordan]

Kat, I don't know how much of an option this really is, and it would require a lot of playing politics outside of RP, but has I-Red ever considered taking space a la CVA? Claiming space, holding it, and saying 'we are claiming this for Ishukone' would be a really solid I think way of establishing loyalty without getting involved in faction warfare.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Kat, I don't know how much of an option this really is, and it would require a lot of playing politics outside of RP, but has I-Red ever considered taking space a la CVA? Claiming space, holding it, and saying 'we are claiming this for Ishukone' would be a really solid I think way of establishing loyalty without getting involved in faction warfare.

We have considered and actually done it in the past (though we got kicked out), but it's not on the timeline for our goals in the foreseeable future.

Taking space in sov null is not something I-RED is capable of doing independently at this time. Due to the current gameplay and political structure of sov null, it would take an alliance several times our size to do that. We're also not interested in any of the existing coalitions, and we absolutely refuse to rent.

In short, no. We're not going to sov right now. If and/or when we do change our minds, everyone will probably hear about it within the week.

Can you tell I've had to say this a few times before? Damn renter recruiters.

[orange]

Kat, I don't know how much of an option this really is, and it would require a lot of playing politics outside of RP, but has I-Red ever considered taking space a la CVA? Claiming space, holding it, and saying 'we are claiming this for Ishukone' would be a really solid I think way of establishing loyalty without getting involved in faction warfare.

This made me chuckle for a variety of reasons.  From I-RED being red to Provi (due to alliance politics/loans surrounding I-RED's departure like 4 or 5 years ago) to a debate had by John and I over whether Provi development was as important as Black Rise development (damn you slowly evolving game mechanics) for the State*.

*For some reason I think we have both won this debate, as I sit in I-MGAB attempting to build a locally sourced economy.

[Lyn Farel]

Take care of I-MGAB (and the whole constellation). I care.

This is my serious face.

[purple]

Kat, I don't know how much of an option this really is, and it would require a lot of playing politics outside of RP, but has I-Red ever considered taking space a la CVA? Claiming space, holding it, and saying 'we are claiming this for Ishukone' would be a really solid I think way of establishing loyalty without getting involved in faction warfare.

We have considered and actually done it in the past (though we got kicked out), but it's not on the timeline for our goals in the foreseeable future.

Taking space in sov null is not something I-RED is capable of doing independently at this time. Due to the current gameplay and political structure of sov null, it would take an alliance several times our size to do that. We're also not interested in any of the existing coalitions, and we absolutely refuse to rent.

In short, no. We're not going to sov right now. If and/or when we do change our minds, everyone will probably hear about it within the week.

Can you tell I've had to say this a few times before? Damn renter recruiters.

FW now gives all the perks of Sov, sans super cap construction, and is close to Jita making it a trader and manufacturer's (both of which are Ishukone's forte) dream.   Also, I if i recall I-RED's initial priamary reason for not joining FW was because you didn't want to work for Heth.   CEP runs the Protectorate these days, Ishukone is part of the CEP and has both a direct interest in Intaki and a dire need strengthen it's position within the State.   Then there is the fact tat TEST is doing all the work grinding the 'Sov' for you.

I hope I don't come off as snotty here, but the situation seems tailor made for everything John I-RED's rpers ever wanted and gives the non rpers a place to make ISK or PvP.    Do you need a giant flashing billboard saying 'go to Black Rise and build a NRDS haven for Caldari traders and merchants' (which again, is Ishukone's theme)?   

1) Take a constellation
2) cyno jam it,
3) Enforce NRDS
4) Set up reaction towers with crazy fuel savings from FW bonus.
5) Sell Goo in Jita
6) Take all the POCOS invite in carebears to use them
7) Collect taxes
Be lauded as leaders of the Caldari community
9) Sell guns to QCATs and TEST
10)  Profit

Pushing for this in I-RED's government would certainly give Kat an IC goal that not many could argue wasn't loyalist.

[Katrina Oniseki]

FW now gives all the perks of Sov minus super cap construction, and I if i recall I-RED's reason for not joining FW was because you didn't want to work for Heth.   CEP runs the Protectorate these days, and Ishukone is part of the CEP and has direct interest in Intaki.

Can you be more detailed and specific on how it gives all the perks of sov?

As for the reasons, Heth was a roleplay reason. It wasn't an OOC reason. I-RED line members by and large aren't looking to join FW, especially not the more recent corps that purposely joined an NPC Nullsec alliance. In the absolute simplest terms, very very very few I-RED members are interested in Faction Warfare, including the directorship.

In fact, speaking strictly gameplay... I'm not even interested in FW. I prefer null over low. I like bombs and bubbles, I dislike gateguns and sec losses. I'm only interested in the RP angle of FW, not the gameplay.

[purple]

Can you be more detailed and specific on how it gives all the perks of sov?

What it doesn't give:
Pirate Detection Array (Combat Anoms)
Quantum Flux Generator (WH)
Ore Prospecting Array (Grav anoms)
Survey Netowrk (Hacking anoms)
Jump Bridges
Super Manufacture

What you do get is
Cyno Jammer
Tax reduction
Factory slots
STARBASE FUEL

You don't get JB and Supers in Syndicate anyhow and FW provides ISK making altenatives to the Anom magnets.   I heard people are soloing c6 wormholes in the new maruders so I expect an alliance controlling the lvl 5 agents in Black Rise wouldn't even need the FW isk.   This is not even figuring in the easy logistics to Jita and a massive recruitment pool in FW.

[kalaratiri]

You don't get [JB and] Supers in Syndicate

lol.