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[Makkal]

Caldari culture as I understand it is big, megalithic, authoritarian, and homogeneous.

Right, which means its not like any existing human culture. A culture can be large or it can be homogeneous but not both.  Though large cultures can appear homogeneous, especially to outsiders.

[Ayallah]

America is not about the megacorperations thought we do have them.  Imo, I have always seen Gallentean pop culture worship and the megacorperations as originating from the United States. 

But most of the EvE cultures are a mix after all.  We also could lay claim to the HUA religious practices of Amarr.  Or everything really

Because America.

(not really)

[orange]

I have always seen Gallentean pop culture worship and the megacorperations as originating from the United States. 

I will argue that Caldari megacorporations originated in the Federation and are modeled off of the Gallente corporation.  This creates a parallel between the Japanese Meiji period, in which they imported western experts in various fields to rapidly modernize.

[mod]Snipped by Silver[/mod]

[Pieter Tuulinen]

It's hard to look for an isolationist Nationstate and NOT look at Edo era Japan. Seriously. Edo era Japan is the posterboy for isolationist states, I'm not sure what Finland has done that's comparable to the expulsion of all foreigners for two-hundred odd years.

In addition the mega-corporations obviously borrow from the Zaibatsu concept and from 70's to 80's corporate Japan. All of the space Bushido seems to have less of a grounds because from what I can see, reading PF, the State is far more focused on results than intentions and beauty in execution - perhaps that part is the Finnish influence.

As for America, there really are few direct comparisons that I can see beyond the whole 'Corporations as people' shtick. The actual corporations themselves in the State are tied into the culture of the State and they firmly believe that the duty that is owed them by their employees ought to be reciprocated by the corporation itself. Caldari Megas pride themselves on providing cradle to the grave provision of housing, education, healthcare... All the functions that American corporations neglect and that even the US State and Central governments seem to want nothing to do with.

[Arista Shahni]

ITs a cyberpunk 2020 thing.

Megacorps, everyone works for oen or they;re an outsider, the monetary unit being the "New Yen" - Cyebrpunk 2020 was a blend of California and Japan  +  Corporate Empires, cybernetics, insanity, and junk. (sleeping in tiny coffin beds, etc, no space for people, arcologies, creches, etc).

And EVe is Cyberpunk in space.  So when you blend the tropes, you can see that aspect on the surface of the Caldari, and it is one of the paths a  brain can take as to what they are.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Granted, but part of the whole dystopian thing about Cyberpunk was the fact that the faceless corporations that came to America to run the show were foreign.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I have seen a few posts in this thread that make assumptions which are patently untrue about the Caldari. Other posters have then built off these assumptions, and part the discussion seems to now be taking them for granted.

One of them is the assumption that the Caldari are 'homogeneous'.

[Vikarion]

Granted, but part of the whole dystopian thing about Cyberpunk was the fact that the faceless corporations that came to America to run the show were foreign.

If you are talking about Shadowrun, that's not actually true. Ares Macrotechnology, the biggest and most powerful megacorp, is based in the United States. Saeder-Krupp is German. Aztechnology started in Mexico-ish. And even of the Japanese megas, one is run (and partly owned) by an American (Fuchi).

As well, something that some cyberpunk authors have noted is that a cyberpunk future isn't necessarily dystopian for everyone, just for the outcasts. Incidentally, CCP may have theoretically based some parts of Caldari society on Japanese and Finnish cultures, but - in my opinion - anyone who reads something like Shadowrun: Corporate Shadowfiles will quickly find the true source of their inspiration. But even if some Icelanders did decide to create a fictional society based on those cultures, that is no guarantee that either they got it wrong, or that the fiction has mutated.

I intend to do a much longer post on the subject, but I need to allot some time to it, and I do actually like to occasionally play Eve. 

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Nah, I was actually basing it off Cyberpunk 2020 and William Gibson's body of work in the Cyberpunk Genre.

Shadowrun was fun to play and an interesting universe in its own right but it wasn't pure CYBERPUNK imo.

[Arista Shahni]

honestly, I'd kill for a good Cyberpunk campaign.

Never played Shadowrun.. to me it was Cyberpunk with magic, which defeated the purpose of Cyberpunk.

Actually got to play a camapign with the writers GMing it at a Gencon one year. *geekoutmoment*

[orange]

As for America, there really are few direct comparisons that I can see beyond the whole 'Corporations as people' shtick. The actual corporations themselves in the State are tied into the culture of the State and they firmly believe that the duty that is owed them by their employees ought to be reciprocated by the corporation itself. Caldari Megas pride themselves on providing cradle to the grave provision of housing, education, healthcare... All the functions that American corporations neglect and that even the US State and Central governments seem to want nothing to do with.

There are examples of corporations providing many of those services in the United States in the past.  Their decline is attributed to increased equality and mobility among the working class (in the article).   Because framed another way, in a company town, there is no choice in housing, education, healthcare, etc.

One of them is the assumption that the Caldari are 'homogeneous'.

While I agree with you, we do not agree with the most recent CCP published PF.

The Caldari State is an ethnically homogeneous nation relatively speaking, with 95-99% of its accounted-for citizens originating from Caldari Prime. The majority of this figure is split between the Civire and Deteis almost equally, though it does include some Gallente, with the latter adopting the ways of the former groups. Although the Civire and Deteis are proud of their heritage and the subtle social distinction between the two, both of these groups consider them to be of one Caldari race[3]. The corporations emphasize this in their enculturation process, enforcing a single Caldari culture and identity for the purposes of unity and cohesion. The Caldari are monolingual for these reasons. Although dialects exist depending on location, the corporations ensure that these linguistic variations do not prevent all Caldari citizens from being capable of fully understanding one another.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

In B4 Kat batters Orange over the difference between ethnic homogenity (which the State absolutely aims for) and cultural homogenity, which is what we've been discussing.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I don't even have to, really. The difference should be obvious, especially to Dex. He does bold out some more relevant lines below though.

PF talks about "enforcing a single Caldari culture and identity for the purposes of unity and cohesion", including being monolingual. Meanwhile, other aspects of PF clearly draw stark differences between various megacorporate cultures. Not only that, but even strong dialects and accents are referenced in PF.

There may be a single unifying "Caldari culture", but that does not mean Caldari culture is homogeneous. Arguing semantics? Not really. There is a distinct difference.

Do you really believe that a group of Executives living in the Forge speak and work and play and think the same way as a group of Laborers living in Lonetrek? Or a group of Scientists confined to their labs and kept under close guard by the authorities? How about some frontiersmen paving the roads in Black Rise for the 30th time after another bombing?

Do you think Ishukone citizens feel the same way about Gallente as Kaalakiota citizens? Do you think the same types of food are enjoyed in Piekura (0.5 Lonetrek) as in Jita (1.0 Forge)? Do you think the same sorts of music are played in the homes of Chief Executives as in Technicians? Do they buy the same styles of clothing?

In a nation with trillions of people spread over thousands of planets, a homogeneous culture is unlikely at best, impossible at worst. They may all be Caldari, but they are not all the same or even alike, which is what homogeneous means.

The PF is written with generalities in mind. They do not write the articles to cater to every nuance of Caldari culture. They cannot dedicate the time towards writing about the above differences. They can only barely spare the time to write out the differences between varying major houses, megas, tribes, bloodlines, etc. There is simply too much macro-level detail to still be written for them to talk about what a Laborer in Piak would eat for lunch on a Sunday. With that understanding in mind, YOU as the reader must understand that certain assumptions must be made off a realistic basis - and one of those is the sheer scale of something the size of the State. I see more variation in the 6,000 population town I live in than I do in Caldari PF, because CCP simply can't write enough to accurately depict it.

You'll just have to use your imagination and not read every PF line and word so literally.

[orange]

In B4 Kat batters Orange over the difference between ethnic homogenity (which the State absolutely aims for) and cultural homogenity, which is what we've been discussing.

Ethnicity and culture are tied together.

Ethnicity or ethnic group is a socially defined category of people who identify with each other based on a shared social experience or ancestry.[1] Membership of an ethnic group tends to be associated with shared cultural heritage, ancestry, history, homeland, language (dialect) or ideology, and with symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, physical appearance, etc.

And as I said, I agree that there shouldn't be cultural homogeneity in the State, just that PF disagrees with the sentiment.

However, others disagree based on the more recent PF.  And it does not matter how I interpret it, but how the majority interpret it.  I am not going to fight an up-hill battle to convince people that it is one way or another.

I have had the storyline clarified in various news articles for me in the past year such that I do not think my understanding of the State matters and my entire position destroyed by CCP.  I lost, others won.

[Katrina Oniseki]

I think I've already addressed Gottii's perspective on the situation. He, by the way, is not 'the majority'.

Most Caldari players I've RP'd with have subscribed to the same viewpoint you and I share - and they are the ones that matter. Everybody else can be dismissed as ignorant or insane IC. Minmatar, Amarr, and Gallente don't really matter IC, nor do their OOC perceptions. That's the luxury of playing an insular and almost xenophobic culture. Everybody else can be wrong.

As long as a vast majority of Caldari roleplayers agree on certain interpretation of Caldari PF - damn the rest.