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[Lyn Farel]

For the last several years ? They have kept taking hits until that year...

[Samira Kernher]

This is exactly what I expected (and I assumed as such back during the Caldari Prime stuff). FIO and Black Eagles are the premier intelligence and special operations unit in the universe right now, and this is right up their alley. It's also been implied for a long time--it proves that Heth was right in his announcements that there were Federal infiltrators working within the State.

This fits in very well with my view of the Federation, and specifically the Black Eagles, of having their biggest defense be in their Intelligence services. Very cool by my book. Not sure why it rubs some people the wrong way. As Vieve says, what is actually odd is the statement that it's only been since the Empyrean War... I'd expect the Feds to have had infiltrators in the State for far longer than that. And also ones in the Empire and the Republic (it's explicitly stated that the Feds have agents in the Empire as of the Nation-Empires war. They even had spies in Nation.).

Anyone who didn't see this coming doesn't really get the Federation, I think. This is nothing new. It's not godmoding at all, as the Federal intelligence network is consistently shown as their biggest strength. Even the in-game FIO description specifically describes them as running a spy network unparalleled by anyone but maybe the Jove.

[Makoto Priano]

Infiltrators? Spies? Sure. Totes.

My guess is that 'compromised' in this sense means that, y'know, FIO agents have gotten dirt on those who can be gotten dirt on, and turned those who can be turned, or at least acquired access to the classified materials of parties in question-- maybe not the management class as a whole, but enough agents in enough places that they had solid intelligence and the occasional ability to influence events. I could see the State's fractious nature helping that, as it seems to lack a centralized intelligence agency, and so best practice may not necessarily be uniform.

Further, I could easily see some self-interested megacorp exec (not the highest tier, but upper echelon) going, "This Executor **** is for the dogs. We need Heth gone. Hey, FIO? For the State means **** Heth. Down?"

Now, the thing that I find hilarious is that this was 'destabilizing the Heth regime prior to CP,' instead of 'destabilizing the Heth regime presence on CP before Highlander.' Obviously, Heth was growing unstable, but was his regime destabilized...?

Nah. Probably some cigar-smoking politicos patting themselves on the back unnecessarily.

[Vikarion]

Caldari get best military

Yeah, just like the Pirates who don't do anything. The only time the State has won anything is when the Federation was sabotaged from within. Hell, even the Incursions were basically given free reign in the State.

[Ollie]

Infiltrators? Spies? Sure. Totes.

My guess is that 'compromised' in this sense means that, y'know, FIO agents have gotten dirt on those who can be gotten dirt on, and turned those who can be turned, or at least acquired access to the classified materials of parties in question-- maybe not the management class as a whole, but enough agents in enough places that they had solid intelligence and the occasional ability to influence events. I could see the State's fractious nature helping that, as it seems to lack a centralized intelligence agency, and so best practice may not necessarily be uniform.

Further, I could easily see some self-interested megacorp exec (not the highest tier, but upper echelon) going, "This Executor **** is for the dogs. We need Heth gone. Hey, FIO? For the State means **** Heth. Down?"

Now, the thing that I find hilarious is that this was 'destabilizing the Heth regime prior to CP,' instead of 'destabilizing the Heth regime presence on CP before Highlander.' Obviously, Heth was growing unstable, but was his regime destabilized...?

Nah. Probably some cigar-smoking politicos patting themselves on the back unnecessarily.

I mostly agree with you Makoto - certainly your take on how an intelligence agency indirectly gains access to and maintains its intelligence sources is, I think, more grounded in reality than some of the other interpretations in this thread. It's unlikely that the 'compromised executives' were Gallente or even representative of the Federation - the term compromised is used quite vaguely in the news item and could mean anything as a result.

As to whether they were destabilising the Heth regime prior to, during or after the Highlander op was carried out - it's open to debate. There's sufficient circumstantial evidence in Chronicles dating back to 2008 that suggests they might have been. Here's two chronicles that hint at that agenda (dating back to 2008/YC110 if you accept the possibility of the FIO being involved with the assassination of Heth's most trusted advisor) and that's by no means an exhaustive list. That said, there's also a lot of room to argue the opposite - that the Fed's involvement was minimal if there at all and that the State cleaned its own house, thanks very much I think it sets a good background to RP against and is consistent with this years attempts to re-establish the setting that was there prior to TEA without sending us into 100% retcon.

As to the 'cigar-smoking politicos' image ... the Scope article is the result of those same politicos losing or leaking a classified military report on Op. Highlander. I'm not so sure there'd be too much back-slapping going on. It's a highly embarrassing breach of internal security played out on a cluster-wide stage.

TL;DR Seems like business as usual for Gallente-Caldari espionage to me. Not sure why so many are closing their eyes, sticking fingers in their ears and singing 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' so loudly.

[orange]

I have doubts anyone remotely important in State Megacorps would work for the Federation.

Not like Ishukone would ever work for the benefit of the Federation over the benefit of their fellow Caldari.

 

I have doubts anyone from the Federation (or with a family history remotely associated) would rise to be in an important position in a Megacorp.

No Gallente would ever rise to an important position in a megacorporation like Roden Shipyards or Quafe.  It is impossible

 

It'd be like China's Politburo or the Supreme Ruler of Iran hiring an American to run one of their gigantic State companies.

No, but they most definitely hire Chinese and Iranians educated in American and European universities to help run those large companies.

[Seriphyn]

This is exactly what I expected (and I assumed as such back during the Caldari Prime stuff). FIO and Black Eagles are the premier intelligence and special operations unit in the universe right now, and this is right up their alley. It's also been implied for a long time--it proves that Heth was right in his announcements that there were Federal infiltrators working within the State.

This fits in very well with my view of the Federation, and specifically the Black Eagles, of having their biggest defense be in their Intelligence services. Very cool by my book. Not sure why it rubs some people the wrong way. As Vieve says, what is actually odd is the statement that it's only been since the Empyrean War... I'd expect the Feds to have had infiltrators in the State for far longer than that. And also ones in the Empire and the Republic (it's explicitly stated that the Feds have agents in the Empire as of the Nation-Empires war. They even had spies in Nation.).

Anyone who didn't see this coming doesn't really get the Federation, I think. This is nothing new. It's not godmoding at all, as the Federal intelligence network is consistently shown as their biggest strength. Even the in-game FIO description specifically describes them as running a spy network unparalleled by anyone but maybe the Jove.

I didn't wanna say this because obviously I'm biased and would sound like a fanboy, but yeah. Samira has the right of it.

Earlier this year we got stories about how the Federation military was sort of...sucking with who they recruited. There was some booster thing I totally forgot the details of...it's just difficult to maintain a disciplined military for an empire that is fundamentally averse to direct conflict (ultranationalist exceptions don't count). So they've got to fall back on other avenues of defense.

[Samira Kernher]

It's unlikely that the 'compromised executives' were Gallente or even representative of the Federation - the term compromised is used quite vaguely in the news item and could mean anything as a result.

This. The executives were almost certainly Caldari by birth, and probably have been from families living in the State for generations.

Despite what movies portray, the majority of spying isn't "secret agent man" stuff where some highly-trained mole is sent into the enemy country with faked documents. More often, they are natural-born citizens who have been persuaded to release information to a foreign government. I would expect these high-level executives to have been that kind... State citizens from long-lined Caldari families who have decided that Heth's regime/the war is bad for the State and chosen to provide clandestine assistance to the Federation in the hopes that they'll put a check on Heth/the war.

We've already seen that many executives were not happy with Heth's regime, to the degree of resigning in protest. It's not a stretch to think that some may have decided to open communication with the Federation (or been persuaded to). That's how espionage works--exploitation of existing internal divisions or desires within the target society. The Provists even knew about it and were actively working against it (yet so many people somehow thought that Heth was just being a tyrant and that the arrests weren't justified, because he was obviously the bad guy, right? Clearly, the poor, poor executives were all innocent! Lol.)

There is nothing problematic about some of the infiltrators being high-level executives, because of the way espionage works. Nothing in this report should come across as new or shocking. It's been pretty clear over the last year, really.

[Makoto Priano]

So. There's an acronym, MICE-- Money, Ideology, Conscience, Ego, that's the shorthand for motives for spying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying

[Seriphyn]

Yeah, foreign intelligence basically works by having handlers sent out to foreign territory to try and enlist the assistance of the locals who are interested in spying for the enemy. And the Gallente Federation having larger portions of every New Eden ethnicity in its borders than anywhere else, the FIO could likely send out ethnic Caldari who are fully fledged Feds into the State to try and entice megacorp executives. That would be more effective than sending a Jin-Mei or ethnic Gallente. The whole James Bond thing Samira said isn't really a thing.

I can imagine some might say "It's not possible, Caldari would never contemplate the idea", but Caldari are still human.

[Lyn Farel]

This is exactly what I expected (and I assumed as such back during the Caldari Prime stuff). FIO and Black Eagles are the premier intelligence and special operations unit in the universe right now, and this is right up their alley. It's also been implied for a long time--it proves that Heth was right in his announcements that there were Federal infiltrators working within the State.

This fits in very well with my view of the Federation, and specifically the Black Eagles, of having their biggest defense be in their Intelligence services. Very cool by my book. Not sure why it rubs some people the wrong way. As Vieve says, what is actually odd is the statement that it's only been since the Empyrean War... I'd expect the Feds to have had infiltrators in the State for far longer than that. And also ones in the Empire and the Republic (it's explicitly stated that the Feds have agents in the Empire as of the Nation-Empires war. They even had spies in Nation.).

Anyone who didn't see this coming doesn't really get the Federation, I think. This is nothing new. It's not godmoding at all, as the Federal intelligence network is consistently shown as their biggest strength. Even the in-game FIO description specifically describes them as running a spy network unparalleled by anyone but maybe the Jove.

So everyone except you do not get the Federation. I got it.

We are not complaining because they win for once - or at least, i'm not complaining - but rather because it's rubbish in the way it's done. It feels very godmoddesque too.

Why would these spies have to do anything to begin with ? Everyone wanted Heth gone. That they encouraged them to act ? Lolwut. They could have let it rot and would have gotten out as gallente even better since their enemies would have been in civil war for even longer. By doing what they supposedly did and helped them overcome Heth was actually making the State a favor.

That was unecessary as a story plot. What is interesting and enough is the FIO involvement in helping and preparing for the battle of CP. That, is cool in my book. And doesnt feel godmoddy. I would also be "lolwtfbbq" if someone told me that the Minmatar infiltrated agents suddenly overthrowned the empress... No, people are only ok with it because it's Heth and jackboots space nazis.

Or like if the Amarr wtf roflstomped the Minmtar prime minister behind closed doors... Oh wait, nevermind.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Doesn't bother me.

I'm just going to assume OOC and IC that it's all just hogwash and grandstanding without any real substance. Like Veikitamo said IC, how do we know it's not just a clever ruse to start a witch hunt in the State over these supposed high ranking traitors?

My money is on that bet, honestly.

[Seriphyn]

Doesn't bother me.

I'm just going to assume OOC and IC that it's all just hogwash and grandstanding without any real substance. Like Veikitamo said IC, how do we know it's not just a clever ruse to start a witch hunt in the State over these supposed high ranking traitors?

My money is on that bet, honestly.

Oooh, true.

Also I think people are missing something key with CCP's news items. What I've noticed is that there's a lot of "claims" and " implied" but rarely any actual hard words. Same with this news item. It just says what this report says.

Doesn't mean it's true.

[Katrina Oniseki]

[Caellach Marellus]

This is Blaque and the FIO we're talking about. While it's entirely possible there may be some mid to upper mid level spies, or intel feeders within the State, which isn't unlikely no matter how much people want to believe their faction is infallible and not actually consisting of human beings, it isn't the most  probable angle in this scenario.

If those files had really been lost, do you think for one moment the FIO would have let the press catch wind of it? They wanted this to be public knowledge, they wanted the juices to stir on the prospect of what those reports may contain, because the general masses of New Eden seem to be a complete sucker for gossip and sensationalism. The way it was set up is these reports MUST be true, why else would the FIO and the Senate be in arms over them?

So when they're released it's had a two fold effect, it's caused unrest in the State leading to a potential top down witchhunt, which will potentially result in complete shakeups and re-organisation and appointment of personnel (which ironically is the perfect time to put new agents into the mix if you're the FIO) and it's a great cover story to do a shakedown on the largest media network and rifle through everything the Scope has going.


All the while painting the picture to the gut reaction masses that Blaque and his minions are a bunch of bumbling fools who can't keep their paperwork in order.