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[Laurentis Thiesant]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T84nrp08MWo

Still beautiful.

[Arista Shahni]

Eventually it's all the other Amarr RPers that have to deal with that, and it's not very fun. I have been rather disgusted over the years to see debates slipping into that OOC imbroglio, especially since that I try to play an (unusual, granted) believer when i'm a staunch atheist IRL. Imagine how I feel when I see other RL atheists being dicks with my character ICly for veiled but blatant OOC reasons. It's a damn mess.

Yup, this.  I got whacked in the face with it and it was pretty blatantly OOC bleedover, cause the convo ended up in OOC that very day/around the time of the IC incident. 

That + the slavery thing makes people not even bother to *skim* Amarr PF or info because when its implied its catholicism + slaves, we're instantly stereotyped as "US Southern plantation owners" who go to Church on Sunday cause he beat some slaves to death on Saturday. 

I usually make it a rule to not go all evangelist IC but often find I have to because I need to correct people - no, we don't believe in instant forgiveness, no, this isn't true, no, that isn't true, to the point of jumping into idle 'rar hate Amarr' convo in the Summit that is 100% incorrect PF in regards to the faction - esspecially when it is like, Minmatar who were reclaimed in their background in the past so logically would have had the Pax shoved down their throats, and one would sssule they therefore should know that it isn't the New Testament.

[Anabella Rella]

Go for it Odelya! Just be prepared to get called out on the apparent disconnect between your character's pronouncements and actions (and the titles) by Ana and likely other Matari loyalists. I see fun times ahead!

And no, Ana will likely not let the whole sexy holo thing die. It's way too much fun to use as a stick to beat a moralist like Odelya over the head with.

[Odelya]

They'd actually probably get along fairly well in person.

I am sure they will! 

I would probably use a Duchess of Palas, rather than the Duchess of Palas.

It's a relatively populated high sec system, might be aiming a bit high for a player character to claim some ownership of such a thing?

I see your point, but now it’s done and I still think it is credible and not out of the possible. Palas is not the centre of the universe, it is just a system—among thousands. And maybe it is something honorific that Odelya is called Duchess of Palas; anyway, there won’t be any unrealistic statements on her part and the main focus of her environmental rp will be her estates on Khanid Prime. Odelya doesn’t care about her holdings, her sister is in charge.

Lyn, I can see the validity of your arguments and everything that could lead to OOC/IC bleedovers should best be avoided. The point Arista mentioned has escaped my imagination so far—as a European slavery doesn’t heavily connote with Southern plantation orders. I find your arguments very understandable and will try to mind them, although I think that Odelya never has “violated” the path of PF. (And by the way “God” is clearly mentioned a few time in the scriptures.)

Go for it Odelya! Just be prepared to get called out on the apparent disconnect between your character's pronouncements and actions (and the titles) by Ana and likely other Matari loyalists. I see fun times ahead!

And no, Ana will likely not let the whole sexy holo thing die. It's way too much fun to use as a stick to beat a moralist like Odelya over the head with.

I am looking forward to it! And the holoreel was much fun! I think it is always a good idea to offer a weakness that others can exploit.

[Lyn Farel]

(And by the way “God” is clearly mentioned a few time in the scriptures.)

Yes scratch what I said on this, I noticed that a few days ago too. Probably bad memories.

[Morwen Lagann]

The point Arista mentioned has escaped my imagination so far—as a European slavery doesn’t heavily connote with Southern plantation orders.

I think what Arista was trying to say is that EVE's largely Western audience is more likely to take the two biggest, most 'advertised' aspects of Amarrian culture - namely, slavery and how religion runs nearly every aspect of daily life - and draw parallels to American pre-CW slavery since it is more recent and usually has a higher profile than earlier forms of slavery, and from there to religion being used to excuse anything, bad or good (the latter of which we have way too much of in the US, which only serves to reinforce the Southern Plantation connection by way of the thought process 'staying' in the US).

[Lyn Farel]

And if not US southern plantations for Europe, then radical islamism.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

The point Arista mentioned has escaped my imagination so far—as a European slavery doesn’t heavily connote with Southern plantation orders.

I think what Arista was trying to say is that EVE's largely Western audience is more likely to take the two biggest, most 'advertised' aspects of Amarrian culture - namely, slavery and how religion runs nearly every aspect of daily life - and draw parallels to American pre-CW slavery since it is more recent and usually has a higher profile than earlier forms of slavery, and from there to religion being used to excuse anything, bad or good (the latter of which we have way too much of in the US, which only serves to reinforce the Southern Plantation connection by way of the thought process 'staying' in the US).

If Europe is pert of the Western Audience, then in fact, morwen, a lot of people won't think of Southern US plantation owners first. Doesn't really mitigate the fact that about all US Americans certainly will. They are still a fair Portion of the EVE Players. Doesn't mean, as Lyn Points out, that Europeans don't have their negative stereotypes that are evoked by such.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Actually, I don't think of southern plantations at all. I live in the South, and that's a wholly different image from what I get when I think of Amarr slaves.

When I think of Amarrian slavery, I think of Ancient Rome. Golden fields of wheat tended by flocks of mostly white slaves (Ealurians, which are the majority - not Minmatar), scantily clad household servants in Princess Leia bikinis, the omnipresent sound of chanting and monk-music, and roaming pairs of slaver hounds occasionally fighting each other. Despite the slavery, I always get the impression of a very "golden" society, full of riches and luster that covers the corruption and grimdark.

U.S. Southern plantations were humid stinky farms of cotton and tobacco, ringed with spanish moss and oak trees, dirt roads, and sweaty people with a heavy drawl. Most slaves were black, and were dressed poorly if at all. It was grim, real, and pretty miserable. Hell, even living in modern times down here is miserable.

Maybe I've got rose tinted glasses, but I try pretty hard to avoid thinking of Amarr slaves anywhere near the equivalent of real slaves.

[Morwen Lagann]

The point Arista mentioned has escaped my imagination so far—as a European slavery doesn’t heavily connote with Southern plantation orders.

I think what Arista was trying to say is that EVE's largely Western audience is more likely to take the two biggest, most 'advertised' aspects of Amarrian culture - namely, slavery and how religion runs nearly every aspect of daily life - and draw parallels to American pre-CW slavery since it is more recent and usually has a higher profile than earlier forms of slavery, and from there to religion being used to excuse anything, bad or good (the latter of which we have way too much of in the US, which only serves to reinforce the Southern Plantation connection by way of the thought process 'staying' in the US).

If Europe is pert of the Western Audience, then in fact, morwen, a lot of people won't think of Southern US plantation owners first. Doesn't really mitigate the fact that about all US Americans certainly will. They are still a fair Portion of the EVE Players. Doesn't mean, as Lyn Points out, that Europeans don't have their negative stereotypes that are evoked by such.

The first part of my post - "I think what Arista was trying to say is" - is the key part. I'm not making such a statement myself, just saying what it sounds like someone else was attempting to get at.

I sure as hell don't see cotton-picking pre-Civil War slavery plantations when I think of Amarrian slavery, and anyone who thinks I do probably should ask themselves how closely they've been paying attention to my posts and RP.

[Odelya]

When I think of Amarrian slavery, I think of Ancient Rome. Golden fields of wheat tended by flocks of mostly white slaves (Ealurians, which are the majority - not Minmatar), scantily clad household servants in Princess Leia bikinis, the omnipresent sound of chanting and monk-music, and roaming pairs of slaver hounds occasionally fighting each other. Despite the slavery, I always get the impression of a very "golden" society, full of riches and luster that covers the corruption and grimdark.

Pretty much this!

[Makkal]

There is a huge difference between a character made only to look comical and assumed that way and a character that tries to be serious, and definitely fails completely and looks comical instead.

'Character made to look comical' and 'character that tries to be serious' aren't mutually exclusive. Many times, Makkal has said something serious that I, the player, knew was foolish or silly.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

Golden fields of wheat tended by flocks of mostly white slaves (Ealurians, which are the majority - not Minmatar)

Not to be a pedant, but :

The majority of slaves in the modern Empire remain of Minmatar ancestry.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery#Demographics

The largest of the Minmatar bloodlines in the Empire, the Brutor are also the second most populous bloodline.

The majority of Brutor in the Empire remain enslaved and make up the largest percentage of the Empire's slaves.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Amarr_Empire#Brutor

It's... Actually pretty unfortunate how much it matches the stereotype.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

even if they are a majority, there's nothing saying that they aren't a compact majority, Gwen.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

even if they are a majority, there's nothing saying that they aren't a compact majority, Gwen.

'fraid not. Unless you're talking about the Brutor in paticular.

While exact numbers are difficult to come by, because of the sheer number of slaves, it is estimated that between 50% and 75% of the Empire's current slave stock are Minmatar.

Pretty overwhelming majority. And, considering the majority of Minmatar bloodlines aren't white (And the one that is is explicitly said to be used for mostly technical labour instead of classic tending-the-fields stuff), well...