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[Ember Vykos]

The reference to the UCCM was in the old timeline.

I'm fairly sure I may have that saved somewhere. I'll check this afternoon when I get back from the doctor, and update this post if I can find it unless someone else beats me to it.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

True, not an offical entry. The timeline can be found here.

Look at the second entry, 3805 AD: "The Conformists, a group within the Unified Catholic Church, settles on Soekheveti."

Then, look at the Scriptures entry or Dano Gheinok in the EVELopedia (both of which should be CCP controled and approved) for the relation Conformists - Amarr.

[Vincent Pryce]

More porn flicks is never a bad thing.

[Louella Dougans]

Vaari is comical, because of using all of his titles, all the time.

like: "I, Vaari, (list of titles), disagree."

[Lyn Farel]

There is a huge difference between a character made only to look comical and assumed that way and a character that tries to be serious, and definitely fails completely and looks comical instead.

[Anslol]

Do not speak such heresies against the Golden Mountain.

[Odelya]

Rin, Nicoletta: I definitely agree, Amarr religion shouldn’t be portrait as “space Catholicism/Islam” in the sense that it is a mere emulation, however we all have some gaps to fill which prime fiction leaves. And there it is only natural to rely on “what we have”, and since many concepts (predestination, omnipotency, exegesis etc.) are issues discussed in many religions, I find it very attractive to play with them. (In my Book of Prayers I have used modified Christian prayers, yet I found it quite “Amarrish” in style and output.)

I don’t care much about the RL feelings of practitioners. I am a practitioner of some sorts myself, but we are playing an internet space ship game and the last thing I want to do is censor myself. And if we would apply 2, 3 and 7 of EVE TOS to rp, we would exchange sweets and gifts every day

Thank you for all the input!

[Morwen Lagann]

Because it probably isn't too clear from IGS posts, Morwen doesn't actually harbor any ill will towards Odie, she just likes heckling people who say (in her mind) really dumb things.

They'd actually probably get along fairly well in person.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

Rin, Nicoletta: I definitely agree, Amarr religion shouldn’t be portrait as “space Catholicism/Islam” in the sense that it is a mere emulation, however we all have some gaps to fill which prime fiction leaves. And there it is only natural to rely on “what we have”, and since many concepts (predestination, omnipotency, exegesis etc.) are issues discussed in many religions, I find it very attractive to play with them. (In my Book of Prayers I have used modified Christian prayers, yet I found it quite “Amarrish” in style and output.)

I don’t care much about the RL feelings of practitioners. I am a practitioner of some sorts myself, but we are playing an internet space ship game and the last thing I want to do is censor myself. And if we would apply 2, 3 and 7 of EVE TOS to rp, we would exchange sweets and gifts every day

Thank you for all the input!

I don't think it's the 'natural way to rely on “what we have”', if it translates to being too lazy to make something original up. That is quite clear from the way how the various questions are answered by various religions. Simply going by what some confession of the Christian Religion says is, really, quite bland and lazy.

(And to be frank I personally found your Prayer Book not very original either and a good example of 'Space Catholicism' over wide parts of it. To me it read like a Christian prayer book with a few names exchanged here and there, the theology behind those not fitting the Amarr religion in the slightest (alas I know a few things about theology) and with a few bits of PF sprinkled in. That said, I myself have had my unoriginal posts and found them quite nice at the moment, but reflection later on made me believe that they were a mistake and that I could've done better if I simply would have reflected on it before posting. So, no tears over shed water.)

As to the application of rules 2, 3 and 7 in roleplay: it doesn't mean that you Need to be nice in RP, it means that you aren't allowed to use your RP to circumvent the ban of behaviours as pointed out in these rules. There's plenty of space for us to be rude IC without being offensive OOC. So, yes, even if it's not what you want to do, there are the rules and you are supposed to play by them and that includes censoring yourself to some degree, if you want to Play EVE.

[Odelya]

I don't think it's the 'natural way to rely on “what we have”', if it translates to being too lazy to make something original up. That is quite clear from the way how the various questions are answered by various religions. Simply going by what some confession of the Christian Religion says is, really, quite bland and lazy.

Maybe it is lazy, but how many people have heard of Guérard des Lauriers and his sedeprivationism thesis? I find it exciting to transfer it to another setting (Jamyl I). What annoys me more is “Space Liberalism”—in many cases I feel that the standards by which people judge and act derive from their personal (= contemporary, western) moral compass, which doesn’t really fit into a society where, according to prime fiction, Ammatar admirals are sentenced to death with their entire family enslaved.

(And to be frank I personally found your Prayer Book not very original either and a good example of 'Space Catholicism' over wide parts of it. To me it read like a Christian prayer book with a few names exchanged here and there, the theology behind those not fitting the Amarr religion in the slightest (alas I know a few things about theology) and with a few bits of PF sprinkled in. That said, I myself have had my unoriginal posts and found them quite nice at the moment, but reflection later on made me believe that they were a mistake and that I could've done better if I simply would have reflected on it before posting. So, no tears over shed water.)

The more happy I am happy that other people, like CCP Dropbear, liked it. For sure I could have done better and I take your welcomed criticism as an invitation to improve.

As to the application of rules 2, 3 and 7 in roleplay: it doesn't mean that you Need to be nice in RP, it means that you aren't allowed to use your RP to circumvent the ban of behaviours as pointed out in these rules. There's plenty of space for us to be rude IC without being offensive OOC. So, yes, even if it's not what you want to do, there are the rules and you are supposed to play by them and that includes censoring yourself to some degree, if you want to Play EVE.

Your original point was that “Portraying the Amarr as 'Space Catholtics/Muslims' can easily hurt feelings of RL practitioners of those religions”—here I disagree.

[Silas Vitalia]

I would probably use a Duchess of Palas, rather than the Duchess of Palas.

It's a relatively populated high sec system, might be aiming a bit high for a player character to claim some ownership of such a thing?

[Lyn Farel]

To be fair I do not like usual blatant parallels to catholism/islam/whateverIRL not because it can hurt the feelings of RL believers, but for other reasons.

It's not only towards the other Amarr RPers that's it's rude, but towards other RPers. It puts them into a delicate position where the boundary between RL and Eve starts to vanish heavily, where they will start to see the Amarr Church as the Catholic Church or the Islamic Religion (or whatever), and it will add a good deal of strain on their own RP when they will have to deal with it. More specifically, we have already faced a crapload of OOC/IC bleedovers coming from various players unable to make the difference between the Amarr religion and RL religions, against which they are already crusading IRL. Eventually it may be their fault to make that OOC/IC bleedovers, but by equating the Amarr religion to RL religions one makes their claims legitimate in some way and we eventually end up in an OOC war between atheists and believers instead of an IC war between two New Eden cultures. Eventually it's all the other Amarr RPers that have to deal with that, and it's not very fun. I have been rather disgusted over the years to see debates slipping into that OOC imbroglio, especially since that I try to play an (unusual, granted) believer when i'm a staunch atheist IRL. Imagine how I feel when I see other RL atheists being dicks with my character ICly for veiled but blatant OOC reasons. It's a damn mess.

I can understand that a lot of people have their own interpretations of PF, and that's what I like with Odelya (the Saudi prince analogy is rather good), but be cautious not to overdo it. It can be fun to take RL concepts and draw analogies to create something new ICly, but directly making copycats tends to make people cringe, especially since the scriptures do not point to so many similarities between RL religions and the Amarr religion. In the form, sure, but for the content ? Maybe some similarities with the old testament, but that's it. I'm not even sure that there is a clear mention of "God" in the few scriptures quotes we have (only on the more general PF). The only clear reference I have in mind is "The/Our Lord", which is rather different. There is no "at the beginning, God created..."  but "The Lord bestowed upon us...". That is, one among many examples.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I had stated three reasons why I consider blatant parallels to catholism/islam/whateverIRL a bad thing.

1) it's unoriginal and oftentimes against the PF.
2) it can hurt practitioner's Feelings
3) it gets you easily into conflict with the TOS.

Lyn here gave a good example why it is a bad idea to muddy the Waters that Keep RP and RL seperated. The natural consequence is an " OOC war between atheists and believers instead of an IC war between two New Eden cultures", as he says. This is also why it conflicts with the TOS. You provoke OOC debates thinly veiled in RP by this.

Also, i think Silas has a good suggestion there,

[Ollie]

The reference to the UCCM was in the old timeline.

True, not an offical entry. The timeline can be found here.

Look at the second entry, 3805 AD: "The Conformists, a group within the Unified Catholic Church, settles on Soekheveti."

Then, look at the Scriptures entry or Dano Gheinok in the EVELopedia (both of which should be CCP controled and approved) for the relation Conformists - Amarr.

Thanks to both of you for tracking that down - it's an interesting bit of lore I either never knew or had completely forgotten about. Was there also some reference to that church in the Amarr blurb from the original EVE intro movie?

[Lyn Farel]

Not in the old intro movie no. It started with "The first to emerge from the Dark Ages were the Amarr, a religious race blablabla"