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[Lyn Farel]

Once Silas dueled me but Aldrith apologized 

[Gesakaarin]

When I'm out pew-pew'ing I make the assumption that everyone is going to seek to use maintain as much advantage as they can -- whether it's in sp, ships fielded, numbers, or OGB -- while seeking to force engagement on their terms as much as possible. I will seek to do the same. That dynamic doesn't suddenly change just because the other side are, "Roleplayers" to me.

At the end of the day, I haven't been the one issuing threats or making grandiose claims in my RP. I know and am aware of my own present capabilities and that of my organization, and I'm not going write cheques I can't cash with some pew pew. If in the future, capabilities develop and grow, sure I'd drop a PoCo and say something like, "Hey guys we might be deploying jackboots all over this planet right here and deploying chemical weapons in urban centres. Disagree? Come at us then!"

Then again, what would I care if other characters think reputation is based on how much you put on the line or how shiny the fleets are? To me that's a very nullsec sov attitude to things, and I've shot enough F1 key null guys in small gang/frig fights in low sec to not take that view myself - because I care more about having a fight if I can and not trying to impress people with how many POS modules show up on my killboard or whatever.

[Silas Vitalia]

When I'm out pew-pew'ing I make the assumption that everyone is going to seek to use maintain as much advantage as they can -- whether it's in sp, ships fielded, numbers, or OGB -- while seeking to force engagement on their terms as much as possible. I will seek to do the same. That dynamic doesn't suddenly change just because the other side are, "Roleplayers" to me.

At the end of the day, I haven't been the one issuing threats or making grandiose claims in my RP. I know and am aware of my own present capabilities and that of my organization, and I'm not going write cheques I can't cash with some pew pew. If in the future, capabilities develop and grow, sure I'd drop a PoCo and say something like, "Hey guys we might be deploying jackboots all over this planet right here and deploying chemical weapons in urban centres. Disagree? Come at us then!"

Then again, what would I care if other characters think reputation is based on how much you put on the line or how shiny the fleets are? To me that's a very nullsec sov attitude to things, and I've shot enough F1 key null guys in small gang/frig fights in low sec to not take that view myself - because I care more about having a fight if I can and not trying to impress people with how many POS modules show up on my killboard or whatever.

I guess I'd just say taking a different point of view when it comes to "RP" conflict especially with regards to winning and losing IC might open up more things for you and yours?

You have to also remember a lot of eve RP when you keep it all IC is more of a poker game of betting bluffs, and risking things.  In this case putting up your poco as an IC plot element and telling your RP enemies to 'come at me bro' could be looked upon as confident and aggressive and you might not even get shot at.  Or maybe you get some fun IC set pieces with poco infiltration and corporate espionage, who knows.  Or maybe you say to 'x' RP opponant 'if you can take this facility out in the next 48 hours you get a blank RP check as far as doing fun stuff inside the facility and murderfacing lots of our corporate baseliner employees and stealing things, etc), if we hold out for 48 hours we kill all your spais.

Who knows, I'm just saying it's not always a black/white win/loss dynamic when it comes to RP conflict.

[Silas Vitalia]

Once Silas dueled me but Aldrith apologized 

That was a good bit of fun, that whole thing.  I know you were ready to rock, too

[Gesakaarin]

I guess I'd just say taking a different point of view when it comes to "RP" conflict especially with regards to winning and losing IC might open up more things for you and yours?

You have to also remember a lot of eve RP when you keep it all IC is more of a poker game of betting bluffs, and risking things.  In this case putting up your poco as an IC plot element and telling your RP enemies to 'come at me bro' could be looked upon as confident and aggressive and you might not even get shot at.  Or maybe you get some fun IC set pieces with poco infiltration and corporate espionage, who knows.  Or maybe you say to 'x' RP opponant 'if you can take this facility out in the next 48 hours you get a blank RP check as far as doing fun stuff inside the facility and murderfacing lots of our corporate baseliner employees and stealing things, etc), if we hold out for 48 hours we kill all your spais.

Who knows, I'm just saying it's not always a black/white win/loss dynamic when it comes to RP conflict.

I'd say we do have different perspectives then. It's still IC on my end whether it's another RP group or random pirates that shoot at the hypothetical PoCo. It's still IC on my end if I'm shooting at things in lowsec or another RP'er. If you mean having gentlemen's agreements with other RP'ers to promote telling a good story and have some interaction then that's always going to be highly conditional and dependent on the people involved.

If the people involved are the dramatic sort who feel the need to "win rp" for self-aggrandizement then I'm not going to go out of my way to satisfy their delusions of grandeur.

[Silas Vitalia]

So maybe a different approach, what are you putting out there that invites other RPers to pew pew with you and risk things that are valuable to them? I mean this only if it is a goal of yours for RPers to engage with your organization in space

[Desiderya]

My balls.

[Silas Vitalia]

Again, it's not the ship types per se or assets lost or risked necessarily, I'm asking about the IC attitude that 'nothing I use in combat has any value to me so anything I lose is completely inconsequential' RP point of view. 

That's what I'm referring to as not making it inviting for other people to want to engage with that on some levels?

[Desiderya]

If you go out with expendable assets then they're expendable?
I understand your points about creating content by offering opportunities for people to come at you, but these should be opportunities that are realistic, on both sides. If I RP consequently I will have my character make smart decisions and smart moves, which includes stacking the deck against the opponent, not taking odds that are impossible to win and generally not doing stupid crap.
As far as that goes, I've understood Veik as seeing everything that happens in-game as IC. Not just things that include or impact another RPing entity.

[Gesakaarin]

Again, it's not the ship types per se or assets lost or risked necessarily, I'm asking about the IC attitude that 'nothing I use in combat has any value to me so anything I lose is completely inconsequential' RP point of view. 

That's what I'm referring to as not making it inviting for other people to want to engage with that on some levels?

There's little difference to me whether or not I'm shooting at or getting shot by someone who identifies as a roleplayer or not. That, and Veikitamo as a character specifically is a deeply cynical and jaded capsuleer who does not in fact care how many people have to die to achieve her agendas and who is rich enough to always have fresh assets to kill things with.

I don't know, it's like saying, "What invites people to fight vikings if they don't care they die because they're going to Valhalla anyway"?

[Louella Dougans]

if someone throws sub-900k sp characters in rookieships at you, then, it costs them nothing, and unless you're using t1 laser crystals, it costs you something, in addition to time.

If they then boast about how they are "winning the isk war", because of it, then... you're not wanting to play that game, eh?

Why would you engage them, when at best, you would get "you destroyed a bunch of rookieships, umm, gratz?" type comments ?

Like, trying to deal with an ant problem, without any ability to affect the ant colony or the ant queen. Why even bother ?

[Desiderya]

Hypothetically everything is meaningless. Why are we even doing this? Let's all go out to the pub and try to score, man.

[Silas Vitalia]

Again, it's not the ship types per se or assets lost or risked necessarily, I'm asking about the IC attitude that 'nothing I use in combat has any value to me so anything I lose is completely inconsequential' RP point of view. 

That's what I'm referring to as not making it inviting for other people to want to engage with that on some levels?

There's little difference to me whether or not I'm shooting at or getting shot by someone who identifies as a roleplayer or not. That, and Veikitamo as a character specifically is a deeply cynical and jaded capsuleer who does not in fact care how many people have to die to achieve her agendas and who is rich enough to always have fresh assets to kill things with.

I don't know, it's like saying, "What invites people to fight vikings if they don't care they die because they're going to Valhalla anyway"?

Right, I should split two responses,

You are right regarding shooting RPers and non RPers in the sense that it's all IC, you are correct.  I had just meant that sometimes we as RPers can get fun mileage out of peaking behind the curtain a bit and occasionally setting some 'gameplay goals' for IC conflicts.

Veikitamo as a character specifically is a deeply cynical and jaded capsuleer who does not in fact care how many people have to die to achieve her agendas and who is rich enough to always have fresh assets to kill things with.

I'd have to disagree with you here based on my earlier comments, in that if Veik is a jaded super rich capsuleer who doesn't care how many people die, she's not going to be just throwing frigates at people, does that make sense?

This is in no way a 'your doing it wrong' I'm enjoying having a discussion about motivations and how we represent this to other people.

So from my POV IC at least, I might think all sorts of things about Veik (whom I do like as a character), but maybe I don't see the 'not caring about death and resources' attitude being reflected in space regarding what is being used and what is being risked?

Compared to someone like Ava Starfire who cares very much about her crew and her baseliners, who is loud and proud about her IC usage of t2 frigates and being sort of an 'ace' frigate pilot sort of combatant more along the lines of the red baron so to speak.  So I look at Ava's combat record and it's a million frigates, and combat and kills revolving around that.

I'm not trying to pick on you in particular V, it's just an interesting topic for me

[Desiderya]

What are you trying to say? I have a hard time understanding it, because does 'not caring about death and ressources' only coincide with a certain price tag or size (#of own lives lost)? - A remarkably pratchettarian way to measure military success!
Because from my vantage point taking expendable assets out to get blown to bits, only to return and hop into the next one is exactly this: Using them as means to an end.

[Gesakaarin]

I'd have to disagree with you here based on my earlier comments, in that if Veik is a jaded super rich capsuleer who doesn't care how many people die, she's not going to be just throwing frigates at people, does that make sense?

This is in no way a 'your doing it wrong' I'm enjoying having a discussion about motivations and how we represent this to other people.

So from my POV IC at least, I might think all sorts of things about Veik (whom I do like as a character), but maybe I don't see the 'not caring about death and resources' attitude being reflected in space regarding what is being used and what is being risked?

Compared to someone like Ava Starfire who cares very much about her crew and her baseliners, who is loud and proud about her IC usage of t2 frigates and being sort of an 'ace' frigate pilot sort of combatant more along the lines of the red baron so to speak.  So I look at Ava's combat record and it's a million frigates, and combat and kills revolving around that.

I'm not trying to pick on you in particular V, it's just an interesting topic for me

1. Veik is a 1 year old character whose sp total at present means frigates are the only hulls she's really proficient in, and due to the fact her 20 mil sp is split across all 4 factions she's probably only about 80% capable in any single one compared to a max skilled fit.
2. Veik doesn't care what anyone's think of her. She has her job to do and she'll go out and do it as she feels the need to. She's not in it for the money, the fame, or the glory. She doesn't care if people like or dislike her. She's contracted to do a job, so she'll do the job to the best of her abilities. At present that means conducting operations in frigates first and upshipping/hard countering as possible dependent on a variety of factors, none of which involve caring how impressive she may or may not be to others.
3. Veik's cynicism has deep roots in utilitarian philosophy and is expressed as such. It's all about just HTFU and dealing with the universe as it is, not what you may want it to be. Rolling out with a heavy fleet doctrine in an FW zone accomplishes little when most people are rolling around in frigates and dessies. It also surrenders a lot of the initiative and mobility you get to roam a wide area when in frigates or dessies.
4. Veik's corporation might have at most 5 active pilots active at any one time. Why roll around in BC's unless you want to get tagged and ganked by the multitude of pirate and FDU corps in the area that can bring superior numbers/ships/logis and can rapidly collapse on top of your position?
5. Veik is confident enough in herself and her own abilities that she doesn't need the validation of others to survive in the world.

Above all else though, yes Veik is probably in some respects a villain or antagonist, but she's not going to surrender the initiative in her "Ebil plans" just to make it easy on the good guys.