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[Silas Vitalia]

but at the end of the day it only really matters whether you won or lost the fight.

Actually I super disagree with this.  It's hard to separate ooc winning and losing with ic winning and losing sometimes, but losing hard IC and publicly can be a great thing, and its always good to be knocked down a few pegs now and then.

S. likes to maintain her aura of superiority as much as possible (and there's always excuses for bad things), but in the last few years she's lost an entire region of null sec and has had two separate alliance tournament teams derp out from under her, spectacularly badly and in public.  Not to mention Aldrith and his cyberknights butchering scores of acolytes and beheading her closest baseliner lieutenant..... She is still shooting like 95% in ship to ship combat but it's not all roses in le grande schemes.... yet....

[Anslol]

Bloody roses. That aren't actually roses. Just more blood.

But I can see your point I suppose. Guess it's a difference in opinions.

[Silas Vitalia]

Bloody roses. That aren't actually roses. Just more blood.

But I can see your point I suppose. Guess it's a difference in opinions.

Well just that it's sometimes good for "character development" to get your ass kicked now and then in a variety of different ways

[Anslol]

OK so less a difference in definition of 'winning' or whatever, and more from a character building perspective. OK, then I agree with you. It forces you to think way outside the box to get credit back etc.

[Arista Shahni]

This is specifially why Arista does not shit talk on forums or elsewhere.  As a capuleer (and I as a nervous person IRL) will not back it up with lazors, so Ari is guilt as a mild RP toon.  So i relfect that in RP.

[Gesakaarin]

In my recent experience a few people have attempted to use violence in space over RP. So far I think the end result has just been my character sipping a tea at her desk, and having a chuckle as she wonders to herself, "Why are these guys so mad?" while they end up looking hilariously stupid as far as she's concerned.

My entire RP reflects the fact that I enjoy nothing more than to just hop into frigates and roam around for some casual solo/small gang pew pew. Threats or use of in-space violence isn't going to have the effect some roleplayers seem to think it will either on my character or her organization.

[Anslol]

Until they take your fleet composition and swarm/catch you. Random 'insert expensive shit here solo to be 2edgy4u' is just not going to work. But an organized effort to actually take on a fleet? You can't ignore that.

[Vaun Erryk]

I read it more as "shit's cheap, so if we lose some, lol who cares, we got fights"? Might be misinterpreting Veik's comment though.

[Anslol]

Actually that's probably more logical since I like it that way too. Sorry for being defensive ^^;

[Gesakaarin]

Until they take your fleet composition and swarm/catch you. Random 'insert expensive shit here solo to be 2edgy4u' is just not going to work. But an organized effort to actually take on a fleet? You can't ignore that.

What fleets? I solo in 5 - 30 mil frigs and the largest fleets we regularly field are 5 man gangs. Being in frigs means you can maintain a high degree of initiative and mobility which means you can generally pick and choose what fights to take. Sure, not much to do against a fleet with enough fast tackle etc., but at the end of the day it's just a frig lost and I'll have many more just like them.

The worst part of losing a ship isn't losing it for me, it's the having to go back to base to fetch or fit up a new one. You might have missed the point I was making, that it's pointless to try and break someone's morale if they have no emotional stake in losing spaceships.

[Anslol]

Oh no I admit I misinterpreted lol. I feel the same way to an extent. Smaller ships just make life easier...also it is quite annoying having to refit. If there was a buy all items button next to the fit all items button, I'd be so happy = =

[Silas Vitalia]

Devil's advocate:

Other characters might not take you seriously conflict wise if you aren't willing to risk more expensive assets or commit to more meaningful losses to secure your interests.

It's hard to have in space conflicts with others when they are not putting things out there that are a risk to them financially or reputationally.   IE you put up a poco, I can shoot it, you put up a tower, I can shoot it, you say this area is yours to use, I can deny you access, etc.

Again its perfectly valid for any character to choose not to risk their big assets or risk the lives of tons of baseliner crews by flying small ships (we hear these reasons plenty).  But on the other hand it's hard sometimes to have meaningful engagement with pvpers who use this strategy and put nothing out to lose.

[Anslol]

Even if pricey assets aren't risked in combat...so what? Not to be rude, I just don't get it. If my 40mil isk worth of 24 shitfit frigates and destroyers wiped out your (not YOU Silas, just in general) expensive roam, costing you 534million isk in damage to the 8mil isk loses we took...so what if I flew small ships? I still wiped you out, you lost your pricey stuff.

That's not something that can really just be brushed off

[Silas Vitalia]

Asymetric warfare is super valid and can induce much ragefacing.

I remember Star Fraction had an RP war once where they used nothing but t1 cruisers (back when they were awful), they suffered rediculous losses but they could reship and rejoin the fights instantly, and put a world of hurt on their much larger-shipped enemies.

BUT it takes two to tango, so you still need the enemy to be bringing something to the table.

And that's not to say two groups doing the frigate thing is bad but it's more that both have to be shown as -trying- and that they care about losses.

If your character doesn't have anything to lose and doesn't care, then no one has anything to gain by participating with them

[Gottii]

I'm gonna echo Silas here.  I mean, Im gonna go out on a limb here, but I think its a bad thing that frigate-PVP has become the standard RP PVP platform of choice.

Part of it is FW, where obviously they shine, but for the most part I wish RPers were more willing to utilize other ships and project power rather than merely generate "good fights".