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[Nicoletta Mithra]

[...] especially under the current threat from house Sarum of beginning another reclaiming does seem a little overly extreme.

Last time I checked the Sarum Prime system was swarming with Sarumite ships already... not.

They have, according to CCP mandated news, called for a new reclaiming and stated that they are forming a taskforce to do just that.

'i can't find it in game' doesn't mean a thing really. The threat has been made.. which is exactly what i stated.

No threat has been made, the Sarum house merely deployed some more troops to the warzone, where the Reclaiming is already underway: That's why the news piece titles aptly "House Sarum “gearing up for next stage in Reclaiming”" . So, really, that's not that new and compared to the Republic's actions of infringing on federal borders quite trivial. A house committing to a war that's already ongoing versus allies that shoot you in the back.

Well, really, the Sarum ships that might or might not be used outside the warzone are really much more of an actual problem than ships that crossed the border with hostile intentions and started a fight, while they are supposed to be allied. Well, maybe not. I can understand Ava's frustration with the level of derp involved in that storyline.

[Morwen Lagann]

I think that part of the problem here with the Colelie arc is the timing. This arc started just before Fanfest, and ramped up right into the start of the traditional CCP summer slump (aka, vacation and Alliance Tournament time). They've had to slow down as a result.

I think as the next month or so roll by and people start drifting back to the office, we'll start seeing things pick up again.

[Steffanie Saissore]

Again, from a newbie perspective, it does feel...frustrating with the arc just dropping like that. I know I can sit here and say CCP should have realized the timing and either have done one of two things: delay the whole arc just long enough to get through the vacation slump. Or they could have prepared news releases that could be published on a schedule during the 'downtime' just to progress the plot along enough to give the illusion of progress.  Again, it's easy to sit back and play armchair general and say how things could have been without knowing the reality of the situation.

[Kazuma Ry]

Shin -

I voted "No", do what you want to do, if your having fun. Once you aren't having fun, then do something else.

[Lyn Farel]

I understand, having been involved with the military in RL, the situation EM found themselves in...they received an order from on high to engage 'the enemy'. It's easy to sit back and say EM was wrong and should have refused the order and either held back or left the field, but then they would have been labelled traitors by the Republic...

That's not comparable. EM are like everyone of us, freelance independent capsuleers. They are no military capsuleers and are not bond to anything beyond their own fabricated loyalties, so no, labeling them traitors for just refusing to assist would be plain wrong. Also, I really doubt it was an order, just a demand of support.

And I too understand and appreciate the dilemna they were put into, they had their - good - reasons to do so, but they could have refused, unlike an enlisted military could not have.

[Anslol]

Also someone needs to counter Musana.

Shintoko, not the hero we want, but the hero we need.

[Rok-Yuni]

[...] especially under the current threat from house Sarum of beginning another reclaiming does seem a little overly extreme.

Last time I checked the Sarum Prime system was swarming with Sarumite ships already... not.

They have, according to CCP mandated news, called for a new reclaiming and stated that they are forming a taskforce to do just that.

'i can't find it in game' doesn't mean a thing really. The threat has been made.. which is exactly what i stated.

No threat has been made, the Sarum house merely deployed some more troops to the warzone, where the Reclaiming is already underway: That's why the news piece titles aptly "House Sarum “gearing up for next stage in Reclaiming”" . So, really, that's not that new and compared to the Republic's actions of infringing on federal borders quite trivial. A house committing to a war that's already ongoing versus allies that shoot you in the back.

Well, really, the Sarum ships that might or might not be used outside the warzone are really much more of an actual problem than ships that crossed the border with hostile intentions and started a fight, while they are supposed to be allied. Well, maybe not. I can understand Ava's frustration with the level of derp involved in that storyline.

Unfortunately you've mistaken the post in that thread that I was referring to.
Before the FIO report into the massing of ships and manpower there was a report where the current head of house Sarum 'Promotes aggressive conquest of minmatar territories', one that also contained the quote [the] “time to bring the Minmatar back to the fold is upon us once again.”

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2840976#post2840976 - Reference

[Nicoletta Mithra]

[...]
Unfortunately you've mistaken the post in that thread that I was referring to.
Before the FIO report into the massing of ships and manpower there was a report where the current head of house Sarum 'Promotes aggressive conquest of minmatar territories', one that also contained the quote [the] “time to bring the Minmatar back to the fold is upon us once again.”

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2840976#post2840976 - Reference

In that post Sarum isn't stating anything about a taskforce and honestly it's just the same, that is Sarum dedicating itself to a war already fought.

By the way, Sarum did this before the Colelie incident. I think it's quite too comfy to state that this declaration by Sarum should silence Federal criticism of the Minmatar actions, when the Minmatar themselves thought nothing about infringing on their allies while under such a "serious threat".

[Gabriel Darkefyre]

That's not comparable. EM are like everyone of us, freelance independent capsuleers. They are no military capsuleers and are not bond to anything beyond their own fabricated loyalties, so no, labeling them traitors for just refusing to assist would be plain wrong. Also, I really doubt it was an order, just a demand of support.

And I too understand and appreciate the dilemna they were put into, they had their - good - reasons to do so, but they could have refused, unlike an enlisted military could not have.

True, We could have refused to assist the Republic. As Players, given the high likelyhood of the whole situation backfiring on the Republican ranks, that course of action would have made perfect sense. As Players, we are indeed not beholden to fabricated loyalties.

However, from the Character's point of View, refusing to aid the Republic when it called for assistance would have been unthinkable. For the Characters, their Loyalty to the Republic is not a fabricated thing, it's very, very real.

Sometimes, we do crazy things that cause us trouble and aggravation just because it makes sense that our characters would do that.

[Lyn Farel]

Of course, if we didnt, RP would be less fun.

I may use the wrong term but fabricated is what all our loyalties are to me since they are not enforced into our characters through their affiliation, since they are privateers, unlike military capsuleers where loyalties are a reality and not an abstract product of their code of conduct / imagination / morals / etc. So, they fabricate them, whatever the reason behind is.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Oh, I certainly hear you there.

I'm just concerned because it seems that some folks are either getting OOC grief or having their fun completely spoiled by this. Ava complaining that Colelie has made her character basically unplayable, for instance. A part of me is shrugging and saying "conflict is the basis of this game", but another part of me recognizes that we play this game for enjoyment and that sometimes OOC rationale for actions must trump IC.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Of course, if we didnt, RP would be less fun.

I may use the wrong term but fabricated is what all our loyalties are to me since they are not enforced into our characters through their affiliation, since they are privateers, unlike military capsuleers where loyalties are a reality and not an abstract product of their code of conduct / imagination / morals / etc. So, they fabricate them, whatever the reason behind is.

Lynn. Some groups might consider membership in a militia merely a licence to make ISK and a welcome source of fights. Well so do we, but a lot of us also consider it to be our best way of serving the nation we are loyal to. And military loyalty is very much an artifact of the imagination. All the ceremony and formality is part of what keeps that imaginary thing alive.

[Morwen Lagann]

Oh, I certainly hear you there.

I'm just concerned because it seems that some folks are either getting OOC grief or having their fun completely spoiled by this. Ava complaining that Colelie has made her character basically unplayable, for instance. A part of me is shrugging and saying "conflict is the basis of this game", but another part of me recognizes that we play this game for enjoyment and that sometimes OOC rationale for actions must trump IC.

I'm of the opinion that if the player is getting that bent out of shape about a storyline in the game that their character is "unplayable", that perhaps they should step back and re-examine how much bleed-through they're allowing. This stuff SHOULD be super serious business for some of our characters. It SHOULD strain friendships and diplmoatic relationships. This kind of shit has started wars in the real world.

If the current state of things bugs people that much, instead of kvetching OOC about how horrible it is to deal with, maybe a better solution would be to group together and start doing things about it ingame?

Start hammering the shit out of the inboxes of the faction contacts demanding answers. Start hosting loud, mouthy, noisy rallies in Pator, or wherever Shakor's metaphorical throne-room would be. Poke ISD. You might even get news coverage out of it.

Just... do something, instead of sitting back and going on about how terrible things are. Boycotting the storyline because it makes your character's life difficult doesn't really do anything productive except take voices, many of them rational and often listened to, out of the equation.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Shin -

I voted "No", do what you want to do, if your having fun. Once you aren't having fun, then do something else.

God. It's really just that simple, isn't it?

[Galen Darksmith]

Oh, I certainly hear you there.

I'm just concerned because it seems that some folks are either getting OOC grief or having their fun completely spoiled by this. Ava complaining that Colelie has made her character basically unplayable, for instance. A part of me is shrugging and saying "conflict is the basis of this game", but another part of me recognizes that we play this game for enjoyment and that sometimes OOC rationale for actions must trump IC.

It's an opportunity for character development and growth.  When Heth made being a Caldari loyalist unbearable for Galen, he stopped being a loyalist.  Galen has changed since his inception, and even though I OOC thought the storyline that drove some of those changes was absolutely retarded, I used it to shape own own story in a way that I liked. 

Yes, being a hardcore faction loyalist is tough, because when your faction screws up, that means you own it. If you don't enjoy playing that kind of character, use events like Colelie as an opportunity.  It can be as simple as your character expanding their definition of "loyalty" to include "voice of reason," or they could go fully rogue.   UK pretty much had to deal with being Republic loyalists to a government they hated for years, and they did pretty well for themselves.

In other words, values dissonance between the player and their chosen faction is an issue every faction player has to deal with at some point.  Don't let it get in the way of having fun.