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[Silver Night]

I don't think I've seen a thread regarding the (apparent) in-process fall of Tibus Heth. With the latest news being that the CEP is officially disowning him, I have to say I'm essentially suffused with joy at the direction this seems to be heading - getting rid of the things that I found interfered with my ability to see the Caldari as a realistic society (and various other crimes against PF). I'll try to keep the list below of related articles as up to date as possible. I've intentionally left the ones that weren't more directly relevant (like Yanala's funeral) out, but feel free to discuss them also. 


Breaking News: Yanala Forced into Teamaker Ceremony
Vigils for Yanala Turn Violent
Tibus Heth's Yanala Speech Cut Short By Riot
Heth Does Not Attend CEP Meeting; Provist Leadership Vanishes
Breaking News: Provists Seize Haatamo Station; Tibus Heth Leading
Siege of Haatamo Continues; Provist Intentions Unclear
Siege of Haatamo Enters Day 2
Breaking News: Tibus Heth Denounced by CEP, to be Ousted as KK CEO

From my perspective, this looks like a cleanup of the storyline mess that is Heth and the Provists. I like that it seems as though quite a bit of the Provist leadership is also with him (and so being relegated to terrorist status with him). This type of exit also leaves room for the Provists - which as a movement do make a certain amount of sense - to pop up as criminals/terrorists/troublemakers with some residual popular support in certain quarters, later on. There is always a place for an ultranationalist fringe - particularly among the population of 'patriot' corporations and the more traditionalist populations in other corporations (looking at you, Hyasyoda).

At the same time, I always found Heth the most problematic part of the whole TEA situation, at least for the Caldari (though other things, like the change to what 'liberal' meant in reference to corporations, come in close behind him). That he, personally, looks to be headed for an exit is helping restore my confidence in CCP's storyline folks. I'd love to see a return to a State where the corporations' internecine conflict was at a constant vicious simmer, and the only time they showed much unity was when an outsider needed slapping down.  Not to mention a State where even when the decisions made might not be the best possible decisions, it is because of CEP infighting, rather than some random, ill-justified plot requirement.

As far as Heth's actual end, I would personally prefer something not particularly exciting. No blaze of glory. PErhaps an underling presenting the CEP with his head on a stick in return for a deal.

How do you think Heth's story will end (if it does end)? Where will the State go in a post-Heth world?

[Makkal]

I like the storyline. Probably more than the Death of the Ray of Matar or the Empress' current mental instability.

I'm hoping that a former Home Guard manages to make the shot he missed 5 years ago.

As someone who plays non-Caldari but enjoys watching them on the sidelines, my only regret was that there was no real PC-based conflict. It seems like 95% of the PCs from all factions wanted him removed or dead.

[Silver Night]

I suspect some of that might be OOC as well. While Silver is Ishukone, and so probably wouldn't be a big Heth fan anyway, I must admit a great deal of my glee is OOC. 

Edit: Actually, no, plenty of reason for even quite nationalist Caldari to strongly dislike him. Instead, I would say that the depth of happiness at his removal is perhaps in part OOC.

[Aria Jenneth]

From the way they're setting this up, with Heth and company cornered and their fangs essentially pulled, my guess is that Heth and company engage in ritual mass-suicide. This should nicely position Heth as a martyr in the minds of the Templis Dragonaurs and a tragic figure in the annals of Caldari history.

I greatly appreciate that CCP has apparently decided to do away with our proto-Space Hitler. While I thought that the notion of a Caldari fascist demagogue was actually pretty believable (they really do kind of walk the fine line re: fascism), this is a good "The Caldari are not the goddamn Helghast" moment.

[Silver Night]

I greatly appreciate that CCP has apparently decided to do away with our proto-Space Hitler. While I thought that the notion of a Caldari fascist demagogue was actually pretty believable (they really do kind of walk the fine line re: fascism), this is a good "The Caldari are not the goddamn Helghast" moment.

I can see where you're coming from, but I always felt that the Caldari (for all the elements that are homogeneous) are pretty fractured as a society. That's one of the reasons the base idea didn't seem incredibly likely to me (leaving aside issues of execution of his rise).

[Kyoko Sakoda]

It seems CCP is systematically taking out the trash, though I would be slightly concerned about it happening *too* systematically.

But I'm overthinking it.

[Silver Night]

While quick, all this stuff has contained a refreshing sprig of plausibility, to my eyes.

[orange]

As someone who plays non-Caldari but enjoys watching them on the sidelines, my only regret was that there was no real PC-based conflict. It seems like 95% of the PCs from all factions wanted him removed or dead.

Those who played characters even softly supporting Heth previously either were in organizations where that sentiment would have resulted in exile from the corp at the very least, possibly getting set red or did the quick math and recognized that public support of Heth at this point would result in a curb stomp.

[Aria Jenneth]

I greatly appreciate that CCP has apparently decided to do away with our proto-Space Hitler. While I thought that the notion of a Caldari fascist demagogue was actually pretty believable (they really do kind of walk the fine line re: fascism), this is a good "The Caldari are not the goddamn Helghast" moment.

I can see where you're coming from, but I always felt that the Caldari (for all the elements that are homogeneous) are pretty fractured as a society. That's one of the reasons the base idea didn't seem incredibly likely to me (leaving aside issues of execution of his rise).

The State's tendency towards factionalism is subject to a couple factors that took turns poking their noses out in the Heth storyline.

(1) The Caldari culture transcends megacorporate identity, meaning that a leader whose support arises from said cultural underpinnings can unite workers of many corporations. See, e.g., the Brothers of Freedom incident. This was Heth's power base-- the working class, not the State factions.

(2) "Me against my brother; me and my brother against my uncle; me, my brother, and my uncle against the stranger." However much they bicker amongst themselves, the Caldari pull together against an outside enemy. The Malkalen incident and subsequent provocations on Caldari Prime renewed the old anger against the Gallente, and Tibus Heth stoked the fires of nationalism high.

This whole thing was an exception to State factionalism that might have eliminated the State factions and united the Caldari if Heth had immediately made that unity his top priority. If that had occurred, the Caldari would likely have become properly fascist.

It didn't. They aren't. The Templis Dragonaurs are probably going to have to wait another two or three generations before they even might get another crack at power unless the corporate factions are amazingly stupid, but that doesn't mean that the Caldari are too fractious ever to become fascist-- only that the Dragonaur-in-chief bungled the job.

[Mithfindel]

While I think we're heading to a some kind of a closure, I'd love Heth to do a Sarikusa and escape to null to bide his time. The Templis Dragonaurs probably aren't going anywhere, they have an ingame corp.

[Myyona]

The Templis Dragonaurs probably aren't going anywhere, they have an ingame corp.

Maybe somebody can get a spy in there and disband it.

[Jocca Quinn]

I was kind of hoping for the New Raata Empire myself rather than return to the pre TEA megacorp / elitist society.

However, Heth has become a bit of a sorry figure and moving him out is probably the right thing todo.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

The Templis Dragonaurs probably aren't going anywhere, they have an ingame corp.

Maybe somebody can get a spy in there and disband it.

I wonder if they'll wind up going outlaw again? It would be a bit odd if they stay as an official state member corporation.

Although, I have no idea if the Guristas would have them.

[Aria Jenneth]

I wonder if they'll wind up going outlaw again? It would be a bit odd if they stay as an official state member corporation.

Although, I have no idea if the Guristas would have them.

In order:

I certainly hope so, yes that would be odd, and probably not.

Of course, the Dragonaurs have done just fine in the shadows of Caldari society over the centuries, flaring up here and there. They represent an ugly and probably permanent undercurrent in State culture, so I think they're really better off blending into the background as the extreme right-wing shadow of the State. The Guristas have occasionally flown left-wing dissident colors, so the two probably mix poorly, the Dragonaurs seeing the Guristas as criminal scum and the Guristas seeing the Dragonaurs as a pack of fascists who are blatantly racist to boot.

That's not to say the Guristas would necessarily refuse to do business....

[Lithium Flower]

I would prefer to see him derping into Federation space, blowing up something and dying like a hero