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[Aria Jenneth]

So, as many of you are now aware, I chose a month or so back to convert my long-running Eve character into a DUST 514 character. There are aspects of quasi-canon (the incompatible "genetic lottery") that have been put in place to argue that this isn't doable, and I'm curious what you guys think.

My reasoning is that there should be no real barrier to this sort of conversion if:

(1) The transition is one-way; it's not a revolving door. Capsuleer implants, practical skills, and (certainly for now) resources go out the airlock; you start from scratch as a DUST character and build your stats anew. This isn't a "hobby" in addition to a primary career; it's a new career, flat out, and one that's difficult if not impossible to return from.

(2) The transition is sufficiently RP-justified. I took my best crack at this, though I don't really know whether it's any good past the first three chapters. (I did appreciate the couple of good reviews I got, but tend to take reviews from friends other than my ruthlessly frank former English teacher with a pinch of salt.)

(3) There's no concrete PF standing in the way. The genetic lottery thing would do that, partially, but I can think of at least two ways around it (clonejack, genetic tinkering) off the top of my head. (Why are we even considering genetics as an absolute bar to access in a society this advanced, anyway? If any piece or set of pieces of genetic code consistently produced capsuleers, the Caldari could just turn the tube child program into an egger factory, if they wanted.)

Of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander-- if I can do this, so can anybody else: expend some influence to get into a program, possibly against regulations, fight through whatever barriers arrival in a ground-pounder training program after years as a capsuleer present.

I'm not at all sure I see a problem with that as a viable option.

As a note, I don't plan on Aria ever getting access to all three or four billion ISK of capsuleer resources she left behind (in fact, I kind of implied that she'd burned a lot of it on bribes to supplement the favors she called in and mothballed the rest), but others might very well just transfer their ISK straight across once the economies merge.

I'm interested in people's thoughts about this.

[Samira Kernher]

I don't see any problem with it, myself, as long as it's one way.

There is no indication that DUSTies also require proper genetics, to my understanding. So even if someone is genetically compatible for capsule piloting it does not mean they are then incompatible with DUST implants.

What is incompatible are capsule implants and DUST implants in the same body. However, the former can be removed in order to make room for the latter, as to my knowledge there is no PF that indicates that capsuleer implants fundamentally alter the makeup of the brain in any way. This is in contrast to the DUST implants, which do fundamentally alter the brain (to my understanding). Therefore, going from Baseliner->DUSTie is possible, and going from Capsuleer->DUSTie is possible (if capsule implants are removed), because both baseliners and capsuleers share the same neural makeup. DUSTies however have their neural map irrevocably altered, and therefore it is not possible to go backwards. Once a DUSTie, you're stuck as one.

I could be wrong, but that's the way I see it, personally.

[Makkal]

No, it's not godmodding.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Since both EVE and DUST characters use the both name list, you'd have to biomass your EVE toon to make it a DUST 514 one. I think that is pretty harsh, and justifies the RP shift.

[Makkal]

I believe I know which DUST character Aria plays and the two toons have different names.

[Aria Jenneth]

Thanks for the votes of confidence. 

Since both EVE and DUST characters use the both name list, you'd have to biomass your EVE toon to make it a DUST 514 one. I think that is pretty harsh, and justifies the RP shift.

In this case, Aria had reason to take on an assumed name. The trick didn't work as well as she planned (dates and times can stand in for names when you're looking for an identity shift that left a paper trail), but the result is a lingering capsuleer profile never to be revisited and a DUST soldier living under an alias.

[lallara zhuul]

On second thought, if it is important to you then it doesn't matter whatever anyone thinks.

[Makkal]

As long as role-playing is a group activity, what others think matters.

Well, consensual RP at least.

[Aria Jenneth]

As long as role-playing is a group activity, what others think matters.

Well, consensual RP at least.

This. Thank you, Makkal.

[Vincent Pryce]

Compatibility between DUST and capsule implants are mutually exclusive. If you are compatible for one it cuts you out of the other. This is the rationale why you can't simply be both.

I wish I could dig the source for you but I really need to run off to work.

[Aria Jenneth]

Compatibility between DUST and capsule implants are mutually exclusive. If you are compatible for one it cuts you out of the other. This is the rationale why you can't simply be both.

I wish I could dig the source for you but I really need to run off to work.

Edit (for a less grumpy response):

It's not too much of a surprise if there's something out there-- the devs plainly declared that they wouldn't be letting current capsuleers double as DUST soldiers. However, I don't think this runs afoul of that.

What I need to be persuaded: PF source stating plainly that the incompatibility is (1) genetic rather than hardware (otherwise you just lose the incompatible hardware, then get new stuff installed); (2) not readily circumvented by clonejacking; (3) is actually intended to prevent more than just having a DUST character named the same thing as your active capsuleer (they obviously and very understandably don't want people being both at once-- that's a little too much "I'm playing a vampire werewolf!").

That done, I'll be both astonished and highly dismayed. And have to weigh my options a good bit; retconning recent events and continuing Eve with Aria as a capsuleer is a non-starter.

[Adreena Madeveda]

So far, the dev posts I've read said the technologies are not compatible : you can't be simultaneously a capsuleer and a dustie.

So, set a clone with dust implants, jump in it and voilà !

Advocatus diaboli : the genetic compatibility is just one step, you have to be psychologically compatible too. It is, to me, a way larger rift between the two : the mental strain the character has to endure is very different if she's a merc or an egger.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

This is the only source I could dig up on the matter.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2534763#post2534763

Nothing much about genetics, only that the two technologies can't exist side by side. I might be mistaken, but I'd presume the one-or-the-other-by-birth thing is only chinese whispered inference that's being taken as fact. Since I can't find it... Well, anywhere, really.

I want to say, though, and I'm sure I'll draw fire for this... I don't think there's anything wrong with a little bit of tiny lorebreaking for the sake of ones own enjoyment, so long as it doesn't come up much and one has the OOC wisdom to withdraw from a scenario where your interpretation of the reality of the setting is clashing with someone elses.

I mean, let's get blunt, for a moment. Eve is a very interesting and unique game with a very interesting unique world, but we're not working around a literary masterpiece, here. I might not have been about for very long, but from what I've seen the PF changes constantly, in ways that are often poorly thought out, and frequently contradicts itself. Two of the writers literally had a public disagreement on if softcloning - Something involved in tons of peoples roleplay - actually even exists on the offical forums.

Personally, since CCP Falcon addressed a complaint that all female Capsuleers have big boobs and butts and are all quite short - due to the limits of the character creator - by saying it is in lore because they all draw from the same pool of physical body templates with absolutely no variation, ever, I've been willing to occasionally tell PF to stuff it to avoid ruining what is mostly a very enjoyable game to roleplay in for myself.

I mean, come on. Not only does that mess with everyone in the universes characters, but it's skeevy, to boot.

Man, I kinda rambled a bit, there. Still, you get my point, I'm sure. Do what makes you happy and keeps you logging in.

[Katrina Oniseki]

The basic gist of it is that the actual OMG-SAVE-ME-MY-BODY-IS-DYING tech for the two don't mesh. Please excuse my oversimplification:

The capsuleer uses a transneural burning scanner mounted in the capsule to take a snapshot of the brain in its current state and uses that info to rebuild the brain inside a blank clone (which contains only a brain stem) using super advanced brain-plastics. The TBC is linked to a fluid router, which allows it to be used anywhere.

The DUST clone uses a physical implant within the brain itself that stores the consciousness and transmits it on brain death, removing the need for any scanning process. However, this implant is extremely short range, requiring an on site or nearby CRU to pick up the signal.

If you mix the two, when the TBC takes a snapshot of the brain with that implant inside, you get a giant and useless DUST implant shaped plastic block copied into your new clone, resulting in a failed clone and permadeath. The reason you can't just use the DUST implant instead of the TBC is because it cannot be attached to a fluid router for long distance transmission. the DUST implant is too short of a range to work with the current clone network. Otherwise, you'd need CRU ships in space on grid with you during combat to survive a podkill.

omg... I just thought up a new ship type.

Anyways thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.

[lallara zhuul]

Just to extend on my point.

The fact that you need convincing, especially after you have 'made it so'.

Is meaningless.

No matter what we say, no matter how much we try to influence your decision about this it is a moot point.

You have already made up your mind about it.

Because even before DUSTies became a reality we had this discussion handful of times.

During those discussions the concensus was that you could not be a DUST soldier and a capsuleer because the exception to the norm that made both of them possible were different in each case.

Each and every discussion, same concensus.

Back to my original point, if it is important to you then it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.

That is the credo of the RP community, that is how things are working at the moment.