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[Ulphus]

The audience that FW pulls compared to a marginalized group like the RPers will make sure anything close to period of times categorized by as years will never come to pass in break in FW unless something similar could be introduced to the game to sate the casual PVP need without sec loss and with isk making opportunity.

Agreed, which is why I suggested the pirate factions might get involved. (I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few pilots choose to fly with the angels, especially if there are pirate faction ships they can get their hands on)

I'm not sure pirate faction wars are it, but something needs to take FWs place as somewhere people can get shot at and make isk. Accepting that, I'd still like FW to take a break for a bit.

[Vincent Pryce]

The audience that FW pulls compared to a marginalized group like the RPers will make sure anything close to period of times categorized by as years will never come to pass in break in FW unless something similar could be introduced to the game to sate the casual PVP need without sec loss and with isk making opportunity.

Agreed, which is why I suggested the pirate factions might get involved. (I wouldn't be surprised to see quite a few pilots choose to fly with the angels, especially if there are pirate faction ships they can get their hands on)

I'm not sure pirate faction wars are it, but something needs to take FWs place as somewhere people can get shot at and make isk. Accepting that, I'd still like FW to take a break for a bit.

Yeh, agreed.

[Stitcher]

not all goals are practically attainable when you understand the OOC reasons why not. IC there's no good reason why the Caldari and Minmatar couldn't call a ceasefire and speaking for myself I let my RP lead the way - from Verin's perspective, the only obstacles to peace are diplomatic ones.

Of course I understand OOC that an FW ceasefire is deeply, deeply unlikely but we can have fun carrying on as if it's not because our characters have no reason to believe otherwise.

[K_Wiroshoda]

How will this capsuleer alliance overcome the Caldari-Khanid relationship? As far as I understand it, the Caldari State's closest ally is the Khanid Kingdom.

[Stitcher]

the fact that the State has historically had strong ties with the Kingdom doesn't mean that individual corporations or extracorporate initiatives are required to care about said ties.

(all of which is a fancy way of saying: "I don't give a rat's arse")

[BloodBird]

How will this capsuleer alliance overcome the Caldari-Khanid Federation-Republic relationship? As far as I understand it, the Caldari State's Republic's closest ally is the Khanid Kingdom Gallente Federation.

Not a "fix" but a problem completely identical to your question.

Answered by Stitcher. "We don't care."

[K_Wiroshoda]

Ha! Somewhat reasonable, but then it appears this endeavor is more "Because it's cool", no?

Let's say CCP form a Caldari-Minmatar alliance between the two empires. It would be an arbitrary development, but haven't players had issues with arbitrary storylines for the past five years?

[BloodBird]

"More CCP derpery, what else is new?" *compensates*

It would be a bit WTF , yeah, but I somehow envision I might also enjoy sticking up for the Federation that has "no friends" and it would also form a sort of solace with Imperials IC and OOC - being in the same boat, holding their respective forts alone, as such.

It would also be somewhat heroic to hold the two least-populated (by capsuleers) camps vs the two biggest camps combined into one power when the Feds and Imps would be massively outnumbered. Just another day in the same boat as you always were in. * Perseverance*

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Again, this becomes a bit of a mess from the perspective of a FW Corp that has to deal with a flood of non-rp farmers flying the flag of their putative 'Ally' invading State territory.

[Ulphus]

Again, this becomes a bit of a mess from the perspective of a FW Corp that has to deal with a flood of non-rp farmers flying the flag of their putative 'Ally' invading State territory.

Is that any worse than large chunks of one of the most active minmatar FW corps ganking miners and haulers in Rens during hulkageddon, and offering free thrashers to anyone else taking part?

The behaviour of FW pilots cannot be used a a guide to the policies of the faction; just saying.

[Saana]

On FW: I assume that the main target group is PVPers and farmers, not RPers any more.

As for why individual corporations would be interested in working with "the lackey of our enemy" (yes, that feeling is mutual): well, depends if it is profitable and if there's new technology to be gained out of it. OOC, we of course know that "new technology" is a long shot that probably will npt happen. Profit, however, can be measured IC. And then there's the OOC motivation of "this sounds fun, let's see if thing actually works out."

As for NPC interaction, even with our great idols at the Event Team, I would not expect too much. If they'd want to stir the pot, they might bring some defectors back for a brief visit.

[Stitcher]

Ha! Somewhat reasonable, but then it appears this endeavor is more "Because it's cool", no?

It always was "because it's cool".

I've been successfully doing "Caldari who is pro-Minmatar" RP for more than two years now. Take it from me, it's a valid angle that can and does work. I honestly couldn't care less about the objections, the entire point is to try this DESPITE the objections.

I want to do this, and I want to see how successful it all gets not because I'm certain it will amount to anything but precisely because I'm NOT certain. I want to try something cool and see what grows out of it purely for the sake of trying something cool to see what grows out of it. The idea is to do something that's fun and enjoy doing it, not to pin my hopes on a specific outcome.

Of course I'd LIKE for the storyline to reflect our efforts, or for new ships to be added to the game based on our actions, or something like that. But first and foremost I want to have fun with a crucible for good roleplay that explores the relationship between two peoples who've been at odds for some time and are only just now starting to question why.

Think of this as a Minecraft survival mode project - the objective is to build something, but most of the fun of building it comes from overcoming the challenges on the way. The difference is that instead of having to deal with Creepers and the search for diamonds, we're competing with other players. If you succeed, great! you can feel proud. If not, you at least had fun making the attempt.

[Vincent Pryce]

the fact that the State has historically had strong ties with the Kingdom doesn't mean that individual corporations or extracorporate initiatives are required to care about said ties.

(all of which is a fancy way of saying: "I don't give a rat's arse")

You want to create new direction for lore by pulling a TonyG on it? Fantastic.

While some might not care on a capsuleer level that the Caldari State is one of the largest manufacturers of TCMCs that keep those 'Matari brothers and sisters' forcibly in check and in bondage. I do reckon majority of the Republic will care, and they will care a lot. You can get branded a race traitor for a far less than working with the same people that actively support the subjugation of your people by providing actively efficient technological means to do so.

The reasons for this alliance initiative seem to be very much wishy washy, and it's clear that people are willing to tonyg lore to make it happen because they don't like some articles or loyalist folk that stand with other factions that are their current allies. You want a new pirate class ship? Cool all well and good... Except that's a bad fucking basis for creating an alliance.

Some the republic loyalist folk seem to like to brush over a good deal of backstory of their own faction and their current allied faction. Much as many republic loyalists hate to admit it but there would be no Republic of any shape or form had it not been for the Federation taking the fledgling nation state under their wing. Sure, these two faction don't see always eye to eye, but their relationship for the majority has been a beneficial one, especially for the Republic. Now that Republic is starting to get to it's own to feet finally it would be unwise of them to betray their long time ally for a mere possibility of something with the State. Tribal, non-tribal, that's just incredibly bad politics as currently really only empire entity that can stand toe to toe with the Amarr Empire is the Gallente Federation based purely on the size of their armadas. Caldari seem to be stretched extremely thin in lore just when they were holding Caladri Prime. If they had to fight the two largest empires in the cluster they'd surely crumble. I can only imagine how the Amarr Empire with their slightly irrational Empress would react to the State shacking up with the Republic.

It would be far easier for the State to get turncoat on their allies if it would serve the greater corporate interests to do so. Granted they would have to be huge, huge enough to cover the financial loss and then some that cutting the ties with Khanid Kingdom and Amarr Empire would cost them. Then there's the Minmatar, who are not exactly known for their open armed welcome for people who have actively worked with slavers and supported the slavery of their kin. As much people like to use the 'corps are like tribes' argument, they really should get their head out of their arse, sit down and do a bit of reading. Compare the current capitalist corporate culture to say native american ( or hell why not scandinavian) shamanistic culture and then please tell me again how similar they are.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with change - if you can do it without pulling a tonyg, and so far I see nothing but the desire to tonyg and forget and not care about the existing history and prime fiction. I'd be happy to support such of a player endeavor more if it had more initiative and effort in world building and backstory for it than "we don't care and we want a new cross-race ship".

The reason I am saying this also seems that you guys want to build something of an empire legit alliance. This sort of fuck the systems attitude would more work if you'd go down the line of a terrorist/pirate organization with this initiative. Then it  would make much more sense. Besides, you don't get cross racial ships without being pirates

[Aelisha Montenagre]

This (Stitcher's post) is what piqued my interest. 

Initially I was what one could say 'vocally skeptical' among my friends, but as it became clear that you were focusing on 'doing' and not expecting a fictional return on said doing, it became clear to me that you had put significant thought into this. 

To my mind, and please do excuse the personal spin as I have not yet had the pleasure of talking with you meaningfully about this; There are Caldari interests internationally, which abide by local law and are pursuing the agenda of their parent empire in a mostly benign way - frequently just to make isk.  What you are proposing, seems to me, to be a capsuleer extension of this process, more vocal and more active to the points of view of our peers, without expectation of sweeping change.  Merely the expression of the personal agendas wrapped in a binding charter. 

For me personally, the driving motivation would of course be profit, but as an immigrant to the State herself, Aelisha can appreciate the concept of controlled multiculturalism as a stimulus to both trade and social development.  This isn't a gob of spit flung at the Empire from the State nor is it the same from the Republic to the Federation.  It is a group of capsuleers following an oft voiced concept for personal reasons (be they lofty or base). 

Set me straight if I am wrong, but essentially Stitcher seems to be proposing a conceptual alliance that, should your goals align, might be right for you.  As with all alliances, it is a buyers market - watch this space, talk with the man himself 1 on 1 and analyse how you can benefit after accounting for what you may be expected to bring/spend. 

[Katarina Musana]

Ha! Somewhat reasonable, but then it appears this endeavor is more "Because it's cool", no?

Let's say CCP form a Caldari-Minmatar alliance between the two empires. It would be an arbitrary development, but haven't players had issues with arbitrary storylines for the past five years?

Not entirely arbitrary, no. There are a good number of reasons why the Caldari and the Minmatar would get along. The biggest hindrance would be the Minmatar having nothing to really offer the Caldari in terms of an alliance. A collaboration of Caldari and Sebiestor engineers, however, to enhance each other's ships with tech from the other would be a major step towards building an economic and strategic connection between the two nations, which could eventually lead to more, or could fizzle out and leave us with nothing, or just with some new ship designs of mixed tech.

And IC, we have various people who have been promoting the idea of Caldari/Minmatar collaboration for a while now, so their decision to try and make something actually happen isn't arbitrary either, but rather the culmination of discussion and emotional connections and philosophies. My character, for example, has been pushing the idea that the Caldari would be more appropriate allies than the Gallente because the Gallente are largely unable to understand tribal society, a society that much more resembles the Megacorp society of the Caldari, which has frequently made it easier for Caldari to understand her views than for Gallente to understand them, and she isn't the only Minmatar I've seen with this experience.