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[Katrina Oniseki]

Originally envisioned by Herko in the fiction "Four Questions", Kresh has become an integral part of Caldari RP. There are many usages of it. I'd like to compile all possible uses of the plant and a generally accepted set of lore for the plant here in this OP. I need your help to do this.

Before we begin, I'd like to request that we stay on topic and only post the uses or interpretations of how it works. This is not a thread for debating how it affects your RP, or if it's good or bad, too exclusive or campy, or what it means for the RP community. This is just a thread for compiling the community accepted lore.

Yes, kresh, like the tree so abundant in Caldari Prime. The liquor is made by fermenting the red grapes in much the same way as many other beverages.

So Kresh is a tree. Possibly a deciduous tree, based on the mention of grapes, though grapes could just be another word for berries. It may be a conifer, with needles and woody cones. That would be far more fitting for the harsh cold climates of Caldari Prime, and the 'grapes' are actually small berries instead of the wine grapes we're thinking of.

He clearly states that the grapes are used to form a liquor... so we know that hak'len liquor is one of the two primary forms of Kresh drink. So that is one of the primary forms. Grapes used to form a liquor.

The change of name… you see, kresh is deeply rooted in Caldari lore. The origin of the liquor is lost in time, but even before the liquor came the tea, which goes by the same name. Some say its our oldest tradition, the only one remaining from our ancient past. Whatever the case, it’s made with the leafs of kresh, and only those trained in the art can prepare it. In the wrong amounts, its poisonous. Death in a hot cup.

Again, a reference to leaves instead of needles. This more strongly implies that the Kresh tree is not a conifer. These leaves are used in the hak'len tea. Two drinks by the same name, with the tea being the oldest form of it. By his wording, he suggests that the tea is even more poisonous than the liquor, which would make sense.

It’s drank only in three occasions. You taste it first along with your class mates when you turn 14, as a sign of leaving childhood behind. Yes, of course I drank it, the same as every Caldari you know, the ones raised inside the State at least. Can’t be described… The taste of mortality, if you wish. We drink it at funerals, as a reminder of the thin line we will all soon cross … And it is drank at the Meetings of Reasoning.

Three uses for the tea. Coming of age drink, funeral drink, and Meetings of Reasoning. The tea is the ceremonial version of the drink. This leaves the liquor as the possibly less ceremonial version.

Why are you so pale? Trouble breathing? Well… hak’len will do that to you, my friend. Paralize (sic) your nervous system and choke you to death.

Now we get to the toxic effects of the Kresh. Kresh appears to be paralytic in nature, with the primary end result being respiratory failure and death by asphyxiation. I'm not a toxicologist, but should we assume that Kresh is a neurotoxin since it is directly stated that it affects the nervous system? Perhaps similar to anatoxin-a?


Statistics

Source: Kresh Tree; possibly deciduous, broad leaves, fruit bearing.
Drinks: Liquor, Tea
Toxic Effects: Paralysis, CNS failure?, respiratory failure
Toxic Dosage: Two to three cups(?) brewed tea. We could use some magic math on how much of the toxin may be present in those three cups?


Unofficial uses?

There have been a number of other drinks made using Kresh. We have the Suvala Brand of Kresh Vodka, and I think I've seen a kresh 'milk' out there somewhere, as well as a sweetened syrup. Unknown how these are made or what their toxicity levels are.

[Aria Jenneth]

If this is the poison used in the Tea Maker Ceremony, the poison (as I understand it) has to be marginally survivable-- it's an ordeal poison, designed to measure the worth of the one who drinks it in the eyes of the Maker.

... Unless the Ceremony really is just an execution and the "let's see whether any higher power thinks you should live" bit is analogous to saying, "Let's see whether God unties this noose."

[Iwan Terpalen]

Current Caldari use of kresh seemed to me more or less analogous to fugu; something you eat for the charm of tradition, or plain flirting with death.

If this is the poison used in the Tea Maker Ceremony, the poison (as I understand it) has to be marginally survivable-- it's an ordeal poison, designed to measure the worth of the one who drinks it in the eyes of the Maker.

... Unless the Ceremony really is just an execution and the "let's see whether any higher power thinks you should live" bit is analogous to saying, "Let's see whether God unties this noose."

The lethality of poison lies in the dosage. One could imagine that ceremonial tea brewed by halfheartedly dipping some ancient Kresh root shavings someone found in the back of the cupboard would barely make your tongue tingle, while it's a straight-up execution tool if good, strong, and made from fresh kresh. So, in ancient times, drinking the tea they made was a significant mark of trust in your underlings or associates; and on the Morning of Reason, it was a way to legitimize a plain old liquidation.

I'm reminded of the way divination and portents were used by his underlings as a roundabout way of telling the Chinese emperor how well he was doing -- since telling him to his face was obviously out of the question. Perhaps the Raata emperors of old were occasionally thinking to themselves, "hot dang, I could barely feel my toes after this month's ceremonial tea. Maybe I should ease up on the taxes a bit."

[Katrina Oniseki]

If this is the poison used in the Tea Maker Ceremony, the poison (as I understand it) has to be marginally survivable-- it's an ordeal poison, designed to measure the worth of the one who drinks it in the eyes of the Maker.

... Unless the Ceremony really is just an execution and the "let's see whether any higher power thinks you should live" bit is analogous to saying, "Let's see whether God unties this noose."

As I understood it, Ethnic Caldari are resistant but not immune to the Kresh poison. While three cups would outright kill a Gallente or Brutor or Khanid, it might only cause severe illness (vomiting, shock, fever.. etc) in a Civire or Deteis. Higher doses would still be fatal.

Mixed bloodlines would severely weaken the resistance to Kresh poison, which could explain the Morning of Reasoning just before the outbreak of the Caldari-Gallente war. Those CEOs which most strongly opposed seccession were also those CEOs with mixed bloodlines, having intermarried with the Gallente for generations. They are also the ones who succumbed and died to the high dosage of Kresh served at the Meeting. The pureblood Caldari CEOs walked away from the table and probably spent a week in the infirmary... but they survived, and they went to war.

[Mithfindel]

Or, taking Herko's words, "Only those trained in the art can prepare it. In the wrong amounts, its poisonous. Death in a hot cup." So more like false morel. That mushroom is, as far as I am aware, the only one catalogued locally as "delicious; deadly; must be prepared".

As such, we know that hak'len tea is nearly safe to drink, at least to Caldari Prime natives, since nearly every Caldari drinks some in a ceremonial context. This leaves a few possible views on the Tea Maker Ceremony (when done as in the Morning of Reasoning):

One might be a game of chicken. Knowing that you might die means those who cannot or will not commit do not come. They are disgraced, and those present will decide for them. This, of course, does not exclude the other angles.

Second is a test of resistance to kresh toxin that may, in some dose, be intentionally left in the drink.

Third is selective poisoning. Either only those meant to die are made to drink the cup, or then the Tea Makes brews or serves the kresh tea differently for each participant such that only those selected to die will. Surviving the ordeal is a mark of supernatural favour.

In order to implement the selectiveness, there are several options. The most obvious one is to provide several pots of tea, some of which are poisonous and some are not. A less obvious one would be one that uses subtle changes in chemistry to achieve the desired effect, the key being that the Tea Maker is able to make the poisonous tea and the safe tea in several different ways. (Some Tea Makers probably know only a few ways - most of them perhaps only one way, and that to make safe tea.) These depend on the properties of the toxin, including but not limited to it solving into water slowly, or it needing a specific temperature to be extracted from the leaves, or it evaporating from the tea above certain temperature, or the molecule disintegrating above specific temperature. Or then only leaves picked at the specific time of the year are especially dangerous or safe to use. Or a combination of all the above.

[Graelyn]

I wonder what Herko would think about the fact that his works are still debated and discussed even today.

Mind you, I think it's completely right that they are...

[Matariki Rain]

I wonder what Herko would think about the fact that his works are still debated and discussed even today.

I believe he commented on that when someone tracked him down for an EON article a couple of years ago.

(Summary from memory, since my copy is half a world away: Herko is over EVE. Enjoyed it while he did it, but has moved on.)

[heinel]

I guess we could probably add that this is used in execution for the honored? It seems highly probable that this is what Yanala drank in the end. (If they followed real world traditions, it would've been poisonous wine)

[Pieter Tuulinen]

I belive the tea would be offered as an honourable alternative to criminal proceedings and an execution.

I hadn't heard that Admiral Yanala was actually dead, though. I hadn't heard anything from her since the destruction of CNS Shiigeru.

[heinel]

I belive the tea would be offered as an honourable alternative to criminal proceedings and an execution.

I hadn't heard that Admiral Yanala was actually dead, though. I hadn't heard anything from her since the destruction of CNS Shiigeru.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Falling_Skies_%28Chronicle%29

It's near the end.

[Morwen Lagann]

That doesn't mean -we- know about it IC.

[Pieter Tuulinen]

Damn. I said that she deliberately refused to fire the Oblivion.

[Aria Jenneth]

Based on the story and my own (limited) understanding of how neurotoxins and especially paralytics work, I have a quibble with the notion that those who drink kresh tea suffer lasting ill effect.

Neurotoxins, by nature and definition, go after the nervous system. They do not typically (or at least necessarily) attack other types of flesh.

This goes double for paralytics. You can suffer fatal levels of shellfish toxin poisoning, for example, and come through the experience unscathed so long as somebody or something keeps breathing on your behalf.

This also has major impact on its usefulness as an ordeal poison if the Tea Maker Ceremony is intended to have any significant component of this type. Surviving an ordeal poison should constitute major vindication-- the equivalent of surviving trial by combat. IT SHOULD NOT RESULT IN LASTING INJURY, which is inappropriate "punishment" for one who has been proved innocent just by surviving. You survive, and are vindicated, or you die, and are condemned. There is no middle ground.

If kresh toxin is a paralytic, it need not cause any lasting injury at all (aside from brain damage through oxygen deprivation, perhaps).

If kresh toxin is a neurotoxin, it need not cause any other type of tissue damage, but could cause enduring neurological troubles.

If kresh toxin causes lasting physical injury including gastrointestinal distress or neurological damage, it is not an ordeal poison in any significant sense. This is important partly because it means that surviving kresh is a seriously backhanded miracle, and also because you end up scarring even the vindicated. It's a lousy choice for a trial, and a doubtful choice for executions because it's apparently survivable.

As a traditional method for much of anything, the final interpretation kind of bites, folks. I wouldn't give it to my worst enemy, if only because he might survive it in a horribly distorted state that would oblige him to seek elaborate revenge.

Make it an execution, and invariably fatal; or, make it an ordeal poison, and it lets you off clean if you live.

Other outcomes strike me as too messy to form the foundation of a lasting tradition.

[Katrina Oniseki]

If kresh toxin causes lasting physical injury including gastrointestinal distress or neurological damage, it is not an ordeal poison in any significant sense.

I know I've previously said that it does (with those specific words no less) either IC, OOC, or both. After reading what you had to say on it, I agree with you now in that it makes no sense. So, in order to help remove any improper references to that, can you point me to where I said it, assuming it's not simply in chat logs? I want to delete that. :x

[Makkal]

Can someone explain the enzyme to me? The one that allows non-Caldari to drink Kresh.

I also assume it would allow regular Caldari to up their resistance, so would that mean one could 'cheat' a tea maker ceremony?