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[Samira Kernher]

Pretty sure it's not in PF; I was just theorizing. I don't think it's that great of a stretch to incorporate into player lore, though, but more-longterm Matari RPers would know better than me.

[Tabor Murn]

Anslo, I think if your character received a matari tattoo, it would have the intended significance if it was earned. However, be prepared for many Matari characters to have a negative reaction. They will likely either believe it's another case of a Gallente getting a "cool looking" matari tattoo, or they will insist that your character didn't/couldn't earn it.

I know Tabor has interacted with two non-matari who have tried to integrate into minmatar society and had tattoos. He was dismissive to one who had married into a minmatar family, insisting that it didn't matter. She would never be Minmatar. The other, a caldari who simply showed up with marks, he was outright hostile to. It's probably not the most enlightened mindset, but that's how my clannish, tribal, character treats outsiders who he feels cheapen his culture.

[Rhiannon]

I think we can mark Tabor down for the "negative reaction" column ;P

[Ava Starfire]

Ava would be somewhat offended, but would not respond with hostility. Many would. Ava is pretty protective about tattoos, and most aspects of culture, but she isnt one to go "Rawr! Die!" over it, usually.

I have never heard of any "friend of clan" sort of tattoos in PF, so no idea if such things do or do not exist.

And yeah, I like to believe that Minnies giggle when a Gallentean walks by with his/her "Minmatar" tattoo, that says something like "Eat at Jim's", "Live Bait Sold Here", or "Miss Sparkles' Baby Poodle"

[BloodBird]

Tattoos are not unique to the Matari. As an example I got the impression the Intaki make use of them themselves. Especially if they are supposedly a Jungle people from ancient times who still care for their culture, I can easily imagine they utilize some tattoo designs themselves. Building on this my toon has a few, all of Intaki origin. Thanks to my abysmally low amount of "face to face" RP this has never come up in any meaningful way, but any Matari giving him flak for it (or anyone else for that matter) is in for a similar treatment as other's supposedly 'mis-using' Matari symbols. Could lead to hilarity some day, but nothing so far.

I would also argue that if anyone not Matari by blood work to integrate into a clan and tribe and get any tattoos from the Matari members of said clan/tribe then any other nay-sayers have no ground to bitch, beyond intolerance, and that will change the basis of the conflict from tattoos and this Matari's intolerance towards a "non Matari" trying to integrate into Matari society.

Same as Caldari being xenophobic and bitching on people who are not Caldari by birth who commit the 'crime' of wanting to live in Caldari society. Ironicalyl the xenophibic tendencies of the Caldari seem ot be exclusive to the State as there was no problem with this until the outbreak of violence on Caldari Prime right before the last war, but that's another topic, really.

End argument is that the problem is not about tattoos or anything at that point it's about intolerance and racism towards people who are not Matari/whatever by genetics but desire to be Matari/whatever by culture.

[K_Wiroshoda]

I, too, would counter-argument accusations against the Gallente for being "shallow" with ideas that the Minmatar are simply close-minded about sharing their culture.

It's certainly not binary, but there seems to be a consistent overlooking of the fact that the Gallente, in comparison, have willingly shared their culture with others and do not take issue with it. This may be looked at from an imperialist angle, or the more romantic angle of how the Gallente are ideally the "least racist", so do not see human artistic creations as bound to one ethnic group or culture.

I cannot remember where I read it, but the EVElopedia alludes to it somewhere.

[Saede Riordan]

Thinking on it though... I suppose it's possible that some individual clans could potentially have "friends of the tribe/clan" tattoos that are granted to outsiders. Not sure on that, though.

As a rule, I'd say this is not the case, but there could be outlier clans and subtribes who do this. It could possibly be very big in banking and trade within matari culture, wherein you your clan tattoos their marks on the representative of a trade ally, but even then, by and large, it would probably be mostly restricted to those who've received their voluval. That said, if Anslo did something really epic an exception for him could be made, but it would be a big deal. There are ways to make a tattoo I think though, so that another matari would understand and would not be found offensive. Remember, matari tattoos are to some degree, a pictographic language, so you could explain what the tattoo is and what it is for within the tattoo. Its not like anslo has "loving mother of 5" tattooed across his forehead.

[Creep]

Esna's Signature quote sums up my opinions on the subject.


(I believe the quote comes from a Muck Raker thread on Eve-O)

[Louella Dougans]

Origin might have been Gutter Press, but a recurring thing mentioned on the IGS and in "The Summit", are two Gallente street gangs, both sport Minmatar tribal symbology.

The "This Way Up"s and the "I'm with Stupid ->"s.

It's just asking for an adaptation of "West Side Story"...

[Creep]

Origin might have been Gutter Press, but a recurring thing mentioned on the IGS and in "The Summit", are two Gallente street gangs, both sport Minmatar tribal symbology.

The "This Way Up"s and the "I'm with Stupid ->"s.

It's just asking for an adaptation of "West Side Story"...

...

Link me to the relevant threads/chatlogs. This sounds amazing.

[Louella Dougans]

Origin might have been Gutter Press, but a recurring thing mentioned on the IGS and in "The Summit", are two Gallente street gangs, both sport Minmatar tribal symbology.

The "This Way Up"s and the "I'm with Stupid ->"s.

It's just asking for an adaptation of "West Side Story"...

...

Link me to the relevant threads/chatlogs. This sounds amazing.

http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1395401
A mention of the "I'm with Stupid ->"

also:
 [ 2011.07.08 17:27:14 ] Louella Dougans > There was a thing on the IGS about tattoos
 [ 2011.07.08 17:27:34 ] Louella Dougans > gutter press, reported some gallente teens getting tribal markings and stuff.
 [ 2011.07.08 17:27:36 ] Seriphyn Inhonores > Besides, plenty of Gallentean teenagers that wear Minmatar tattoos because, you know, they're actually Minmatar...
 [ 2011.07.08 17:27:47 ] Ava Starfire > And many are not.
 [ 2011.07.08 17:27:49 ] Louella Dougans > the artist was writing "I'm with Stupid --->" and stuff on them though.
 [ 2011.07.08 17:28:02 ] Kybernetes Moros > People with tattoos they don't know the meaning of.
 [ 2011.07.08 17:28:05 ] Ava Starfire > Im sorry you have a problem with the fact that I dislike people using my culture as a fasion statement.
 [ 2011.07.08 17:28:06 ] Kybernetes Moros > Stop the freakin' presses.
 [ 2011.07.08 17:28:26 ] Louella Dougans > so there's gangs of street toughs with minmatar writing that says "this way up" and "slippery when wet" and "no user serviceable parts inside" and stuff on them.
 [ 2011.07.08 17:28:36 ] Ava Starfire > /emote snorts > Yes, heh
 [ 2011.07.08 17:28:44 ] Kalaratiri > /emote starts laughing
 [ 2011.07.08 17:28:49 ] Ava Starfire > I have seen some great ones, and they had no idea what they said

[Katrina Oniseki]

As hilarious as that is, I have to ask... why would there be culturally significant tattoos that say these things? Do Minmatar tattoo their cardboard boxes and toasters?

[Adreena Madeveda]

As hilarious as that is, I have to ask... why would there be culturally significant tattoos that say these things? Do Minmatar tattoo their cardboard boxes and toasters?

Of course. Who would put books in a cardboard box destined by its voluval to carry clothes ? That way lies madness.

[Uraniae]

Well, considering Uraniae has a Matari inspired tattoo, I figure I can go ahead on comment on this.

Uraniae has an Amarrian tattoo design on her face and a Matari design on her wrist.  The Amarrian one I never bothered to think of anything truly significant for its meaning.  However the Matari one is a wholly player-fiction creation.  It is a mark that is supposed to commemorate and honor a loved one that has been lost.  I imagine that due to the nature of the mark it might actually be permissible to have it applied before having a voluval (in the case of Matari orphans perhaps) and due to the more personal nature of honoring the dead it might be a "more acceptable" sort of mark for non-matari.  Again, there is no PF to really back this up.

Uraniae went through a process ICly to inquire about this sort of tattoo, asking any Matari that were on polite terms with her.  I even took the issue to the IGS to get some more opinions from folks I don't normally interact with, and yes there was some opposition to the idea.  The majority of that opposition came from a misunderstanding and miscommunication, people thinking Uraniae was going to attempt to get a voluval, which was blatantly untrue.  The vast majority of people who were crying foul over the IGS or various in-game chat channels were actually pretty quick to say it was possibly acceptable after they learned the nature of the tattoo Uraniae was trying to get.

So I think the thing to do is for Anslo to inquire through various in-character mediums and explain what he is after and why to the various roleplayers who play the part of Matari spiritual authorities.

[Ava Starfire]

I think the difference here (As Ava sees it, ICly) is between tattoos of minmatar styling, and outright tattoos that mark one as a member of a Minmatar tribe and clan. A tattoo on the wrist, or arm, or whatever? I doubt she cares, as long as it is tasteful and does not lay claim to anything the wearer actually cannot lay claim to. Gallente kids with naming marks tattooed on their faces? Yeah. That's a bit different.

One is a bit of art inspired by, or even in honor of, another culture. The other marks one as a member of said cultural group. Small difference.